Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I have to prove that I earned my seat. I don't want anybody thinking that someone gave this to me.
And in doing that, you create this notion of keep moving the goalposts for yourself. Right. Like I told you, I get one promotion, but I'm already thinking about the next five and what the next five years look like. It is rooted in proving yourself, that you deserve to be here. Healthy ambition is. I already know that I am.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: I'm Diana Earley, and I've spent most of my life learning firsthand what privilege actually costs.
The legacy control, the family expectations. The guilt of feeling trapped in a life everyone thinks you should be grateful for. If you've ever wondered why having everything still feels like something's missing, you're in the right place.
Welcome to Pressures of Privilege.
My guest today spent nearly 20 years inside some of the most powerful rooms in American finance as a managing director at bank of America private bank. Ashley Varnado.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Varnado.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Varnado. Thank you. Led a national team stewarding $25 billion in assets across 18 markets.
But what she'll tell you and what I want to dig into today is that the money was never really the point.
The point was always what families do with it, what they pass down, what they stand for. Ashley, welcome.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Diana. I'm so excited to be here with you today. Thank you for having me.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Wow. Thank you. I'm so excited that we found each other, and your story is just so impressive, and I'm going to dive right in, because a lot of the work you've done within bank of America has been in the philanthropic world. You know, when families come to you wanting to align their money with their values, like, what's the first thing you. You ask them?
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Oh, that's a wonderful question.
And, you know, it's interesting, Diana. So I spent a lot of time, most certainly in a number of different roles across the finance segmented industry.
My last stop before my halftime, which I know I'll talk about as well, was in a group called Philanthropic Solutions. And so what we did was that we worked with 1%, the we wealthiest families, our wealthiest clients, across multiple platforms and large institutions to really help them, to your point, understand how they could leverage their wealth for good. That could be a private foundation. And for large institutions, that may have meant creating a foundation for their organization, but I loved working with families the most because that is where you really saw the work turn into something very, very, very real.
And so, you know, I'll tell you, families will come all the time. And say, listen, we have this amount of money, we are already writing checks every year to the organizations that, you know, our grandmother or our mother loved. But we want to do something that is a little bit more tangible. We want to take it from just writing checks to now having some real tangible impact and then creating the accountability on the receiving side. Right. The recipient of these gifts, so that we can really track how we are really changing the world.
And the first thing that I would say to them is, well, tell me what you love. And I don't want to just talk to you particular representative about what you love. Let's talk to every family member. Let's do an individual interview. And then ultimately we'd get in a room together to figure out what it is that the family wanted their mission to be. It all starts with a purpose. And. And it all starts with the mission. And sometimes that could look very differently, that sometimes that could be. You know, one side of the family really leaned more in animal care. One side of the family really lean more in education. How do we bring all that together and then find organizations that may align to each segment of what the family has decided would be their joint mission? And then let's go and start learning about those organizations. The next step would be let's figure out how much of the pie you want to give out on an annual basis. Let's start macro and. And let's start. Mike. How do you invest into these organizations to really change the world? So it really starts in the simplest of forms and conversation and discussion. Yes, you have a lot of money. Yes, you wanted to create impact. Now let's figure out how to tangibly do that in a way that would really create a legacy that you can be proud of and that everyone could be proud of.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: So what do you say to someone who's feeling a little lost about what to do with it?
Like, what's the one thing you tell them?
[00:04:39] Speaker A: Listen, everyone's lost, especially in an environment right now, right, where there's a lot of need. There are so many needs with the reduction of federally funded programs. There are so many needs just with the economy as well. And so you're going to certainly feel lots of hands reaching out with our current geopolitical environment, et cetera. I would say if you're feeling lost, it's always good to lean into expertise that could look very differently for a number of people. You have consultants who do this type of work. You have large organizations like bank of America and Chase and Wells Fargo who do this type of work. But Lean into expertise. You don't have to figure it out on your own. Lean into the expertise. Get someone who really understands your family, your dynamic, and then start from there. Listen, the race is not for, um, it's not a sprint. That's what I want to. To convey. It is, in fact, a marathon. And if you're building anything really tangible, it's gonna take time. So be patient with yourself. Lean into expertise. And then really start looking at the organizations that you consider are creating impact. And I would say do an informal interview with them in the sense that you're going to their functions, you're reading their impact reports, you're understanding what they do in a very inconspicuous way so that you can start to learn more about how they operate before you consider giving them a gift.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Ah, yeah. So like kind of going undercover.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Undercover.
It's exactly. Yeah. Or sending your team out, sending other folks out to really understand what this is. But it starts with leaning into an expert. You don't have to figure it out on your own. There are so many people who are doing this work really well today, and that would love to help you do this work today.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Because you. You were one of those experts. I mean, you started out as a financial analyst fresh out of college.
20 years later, you're managing $25 billion for some of the wealthiest families in America. So what changed? Like, what changed in how you thought about money along the way?
[00:06:44] Speaker A: Oh, it's so interesting, that question. Thank you for asking that. Listen, I'm going to be very transparent with you. I came from very humble beginnings. I didn't know the first thing about wealth. What I considered wealth with my variable background was getting a job, being able to maintain that job, getting good credit, paying your bills on time, and maintaining good credit. That was wealth. Where I was from being able to go to a bank and get a loan whenever you want to. It wasn't until I stepped into corporate America and understood that wealth was so much more than just having a great credit score and being able to go pile up on more debt. Right. When. Whenever you decided to.
And so for me, this concept of wealth has really evolved in that now it's about building legacy. It's rooted in legacy. Yes, your wealth is good for you. You should be very proud of the wealth that you've built for yourself and your family. But let's create tools so that this wealth can be retained for generations to come through a myriad of products. Right. A myriad of solutions. But let's create a legacy that you can be proud of and that your family can take advantage of and create impact with 100, 200 years from now. And so it was less about, let me make sure I can pay my bills on time so that I can maintain good credit to now. How can I, for example, create a trust that my grandchildren and my great grandchildren will be able to take advantage of? It's all about legacy now. That's the root word of how it evolved. It's now it's about legacy, not just right now, but what's going to happen and what will outlive me.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: But you've been on the inside of that legacy planning.
What have you seen go wrong?
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Oh, so many stories. How much time do we have, girl? Okay, listen, what I've seen that may not have materialized, I think the way that some families would have wanted is the next gen not really being involved in the discussion early enough, right?
Sometimes as parents, sometimes as grandparents, originators of the wealth, we feel that the next gen shouldn't be involved unless they are of a certain age, they've acquired a certain amount of wealth themselves, and they have an understanding, or at least a baseline understanding of why the wealth or how the wealth was created.
The people who invite the next gen to the table too late typically don't get it right. And the reason why is because by the time someone's 18 or 21, they've already developed their own worldviews of wealth, of what it is, et cetera. They've already developed why they're wealthy, et cetera, and they've already developed a sense of purpose as to why the family or how the family's wealth will be leveraged moving forward.
They already have their own ideas, so you don't have time to really shape their ideas or really shape their morals relative to why the wealth exists and how the legacy will be continued versus families who get it right. Listen, they're including wealth and including the family legacy and how the family got to of that level of wealth in their everyday conversation. I will tell you, I was at one point, I have two sons, 7 and 13. I was very interested in them learning a second and third language, right? And so I was investing a lot of money in them with tutors, et cetera. We were doing all these things. And finally one of the tutors sat down with me and said, you know, the easiest way to make sure that these children understand and can really talk the language is by implementing it in your everyday conversation.
That goes very well in what we're talking about today.
So having conversations around the table with your 4 year old, your 5 year old, your 7 year old around how the family acquired wealth, why it exists today, what your vision is right for the family's wealth. Years from now, you start to have the opportunity and you create the opportunities to really help shape their thinking very early on. It's just like us using a different language in our family every day in dinner and moving around the house. That part of your family's legacy being implemented into how these children are thinking and how your next gen and their next gen will be thinking. It starts very early. And so again, I find, to answer your question shortly, when NextGen is brought in way too late, you've already lost the battle because they've already developed their own thinking, they're an adult by that time and they may have their own vices around how the family has been run. Right, and how the wealth has been run versus starting children very early and making it an everyday part of the conversation. What is a trust? Allowing the children to see the family office meet the family office staff, sit in meetings as much as you can with the five year old, right? Not terribly realistic, but making sure that that is a second language for them so that by the time they're 18 and 21 and they're able to contribute in a way that's meaningful, you've already had an opportunity to really shape how they think around the family.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: That's so interesting. You say that. I just met a guy last week. I forgot his name, but I think I'm going to get him on the podcast. His daughters like played under his desk. You know, he's like a CEO, created like seven, eight or 10 companies total. CEO type, loves making money, but it's more about the, you know, sort of the entrepreneurial game.
She played under his desk her entire childhood, like at first, you know, with her dolls, but she's hearing conversations all day long and now she's working in AI, making a ton of money, reinvesting it all in non AI though, interestingly, like she's, she's like, I think she's investing in like plumbing businesses.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: Oh, she will do very well. You'd never want for plumbers.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: And I'm thinking mobile pet grooming service.
[00:12:54] Speaker A: That's really cool actually.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: Yeah, she's, she's just cleaning up financially right now, but I, but she's totally entrepreneurial in her like the way she thinks and the way she, she's living her life. Um, so yeah, this is, this kind of confirms what you're saying is bring the kids to the Conversation in some of the world that I know that of wealth. They don't like the idea. Like, talking about money was always taboo. And, you know, like, telling your kids how much money you have was never even. Like, that was that. Would. That. That horrifies a lot of people I know with wealth. How do you feel about that? Like, how do you talk about wealth without, you know, mentioning the amount of.
[00:13:30] Speaker A: Oh, that's a good.
A good question. And it's tough. It's tough. I think we are from very senior generations where, again, you don't talk about money under any circumstances. In fact, the grownups will get in the room and talk about it, but they very rarely talked about it to each other. Right. I'm talking about siblings amongst each other.
Listen, I think that there are subtle ways, and the children figure it out anyway. They understand that they're riding in a certain type of car versus that of their peers. They understand very early on that they go to a certain type of school versus their peers. And it's not as taboo as you'd think because of the access to social media people.
The kids now can Google the family name quite literally. It happened in one of the conversations that I sat with with a family that I love so dearly. But they Googled the family name, and then they figured out, wait a minute, this is us. That's my dad, that's my uncle, that's my mom. Like, how are we writing these $50,000 checks to this nonprofit?
Figure it out. And so I say that. To say this, you don't have to discuss amounts, but the children are intuitive, more intuitive than we believe, I would say. You shouldn't until a certain age. Right. Talk about amounts. Talk about things that could, in some ways, inflate or distort the children, being just that, children very early on.
But I think there would be. There are very subtle ways to say, listen, you're privileged.
You know, we've been blessed in this way because we're here to make lives easier for other people. Right.
A good way to do it is certainly through philanthropic acts of love.
One of the things that I always encourage families to do is around the holidays, go volunteer. Take your children to the food banks, take your children to various nonprofits so that they can, you know, in a very subtle way, see that there is a difference. And again, the reason that we all exist is to, in fact, make sure that we're creating a better society for everyone else.
And so I think there are ways, without talking about specific amounts, that you can help them understand the difference and why they are. They have been granted this level of privilege and how they can use that for good. So I take my kids all the time. They would have a bunch of toys. And I say, every holiday, pack them up. And don't just pack up the toys you don't want anymore. I want you to give me four new toys, things that you love, because you have to create happiness for other people, joy for other people who may not have access to these types of things. And you're also creating room for yourself to receive some of the newer things that you want. So it's in those very subtle ways that you can make sure they understand the difference without saying, you know, you're going to be a millionaire when I die. Right. There are ways that you can certain.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Did you get a lot of pushback?
[00:16:19] Speaker A: Oh, lots of it, yeah. But now it's second nature. Like, they do it on their own now. Like, it's so sweet. My youngest son had a axe for a toy for the entire year. We refused to buy it because also we want to create healthy humans to let them know that they have to work for some of these things. It is not that, you know, you just walk in one day after school and say, you want this really expensive toy and you're going to get it. I had to work, being from very humble beginnings for everything that I had. Right.
So anyway, he loved this toy when he got it a couple of years ago.
So much so he would take it everywhere with him, church, like, wherever we went, that we are almost assured that this toy was going to be there with him.
And without us even prompting him, he said, mom, I really, really love this toy, but I know there is a kid who would love it more than me. So I want to put this in the pile. So at first, yes, there is a lot of resistance, a lot of it, because how dare you. I've been dreaming about this toy for the last 12 months. Right. Or the last two years, and you finally got it for me. Now you're asking me to give that up. But isn't that what we're supposed to do? We're supposed to use our tools and the resources that we have, sometimes the things we love the most, to in fact ensure that we're creating comfort for other people. That's our duty in the world. I may be Pollyannish in my way of thinking, but implementing that very early on, I do think helped them to become givers and strategic givers. Not just giving because I don't want it anymore, but a strategic Giver in that I am intentionally creating ease for another human.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: Are you able to help them let go of the toy they like because they want something else? And you're like, well, I'm only going to get you that something else if you let go of that, or is it purely okay, I'm going to, like, give it up? And there's a huge hole there that. That's not going to be refilled soon after.
[00:18:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Well, the reality is they are still children, right. And so there is some coaxing. So they've already asked me for four more things by the time we get to the holidays. Right?
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. So, you know, they want.
[00:18:26] Speaker A: There is an element of that, and I think it differs per child. My youngest child was just like, he asked for things, but he was so content with giving that toy up. He's very different from my oldest because my oldest is like, okay, I'll do this, but we gotta shake on it and sign a contract that when I wake up on Christmas morning, I'm gonna have this list of things. Whereas my youngest is a little bit more empathetic. He's like, no, it's okay. I don't need anything else. I'm already blessed. Like, I don't need anything else. Right. But I say that to say most certainly there is some coaxing that has to happen, especially early on. Right. They. They have to know that you have to give up things in order to continue to receive. You don't wanna teach hoarders of any of the good things they have that we should continue to pour into other people as we're being poured into.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that. That is so cool to be able to. I mean, I'm just thinking practically, like, the hoarding aspect. I, I know people with wealth who just. They just accumulate and accumulate and accumulate, and then their house is full of stuff. And I think it really does weigh you down trying to get through life with so much.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: It's so true.
You know, I'll tell you this, and we'll talk about the radical sabbatical in a bit, but a part of me making the decision to step away at the height of my career was feeling weighed down by all the things I had accumulated. So much. I am a purse lover. I love bags. I think it comes from the fact that. And my mom loved bags too, right?
[00:19:58] Speaker B: She.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: She. She loved bags, but we were never really able to buy designer bags, right. She probably got one or two.
And when I acquired a certain level of success and I could afford designer bags, listen at every personal achievement Anytime I felt terrible about not achieving something, I would 100% go online, click, get a bag, and I would wait patiently in the mail to get it. And then I get here, and, you know, it didn't make me feel the way that I thought it make me feel. And so every single time, I'd mark that with the back that I really wanted.
And as you think about your point of things kind of weighing you down, one of the things that my therapist encouraged me to do, she said, you know, you have a lot of purses. You come in with a different purse every single time I see you. What do you talk about philanthropy a lot? Why don't you give away your purses? And I go, what? What do you mean give away my purses? These are really expensive purses. And I worked for them, and, you know, and all of them mean something to me. But what I didn't realize d was that there were attachments to those purses that were not healthy. And so guess what I'm doing now. I've been doing, like, Instagram lives, giving away Dior, giving away, like, all of these purses. And there's a story behind every purse where I can remember. I remember when I bought this purse, I had just lost a deal, and I wanted to make myself feel better. And here's the lesson behind it. And do you know that it's helped me feel so much lighter?
I feel so free now. And of course, I need to write it off on my taxes because my husband's looking at me like, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? You need to at least get market value for them. But there is something to what you just said in that it tends to weigh down that the hoarding of goods, the hoarding of your treasures.
You can't be free if you have all those things and you feel so much better. There is such an adrenaline rush by giving that to someone who may, under any other circumstances, they may not be able to afford a purse like that. Right. And so it is very freeing, like, getting rid of some of that stuff. I feel so much lighter now that I've been able to detach from that part of myself.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: Wow, that's so valuable. I just so excited that our listeners can. Can. Can hear this because, you know, there's. There's a reason why Marie Kondo is so popular.
You know, there were the whole sort of saying thank you to an object and say, you serve me well, thank you, and then giving it away to somebody who can use it.
It's so nice and this whole sort of giving mindset. When you were the board chair of the Young Black Leadership alliance, that's a volunteer thing, right?
Yeah. So you were doing that while you were working at bank of America?
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I'm actually still doing it. I'm actually still doing.
Is an amazing organization that provides exposure opportunities to young adults, high school students, so that they're ready for college, they learn the leadership skills. But you know what I love about the organization the most is that they teach them service.
It's not about just getting the scholarships and getting the jobs and internships, et cetera. That's a wonderful thing.
But it teaches them how to serve.
They do mission trips in Ghana. They just built a house in Belize.
They went to Nigeria to build a water well to. And these were high school students, high school and college students. They built a water well because the village did not have clean water. It's absolutely amazing.
And so it was very natural for me to align to that organization for all the very obvious reasons. Coming from very humble beginnings and being a beneficiary of philanthropy myself, that is how I've been able to acquire the success.
And it has been one of the joys, most certainly of my life. It gives me an opportunity to certainly pour back in a way, although an expensive way, but pour back in a way that will ensure that I'm bringing other leaders along with me. What does that mean? It doesn't mean a darn thing if I'm the only one who got a chance to do all this cool stuff within my career. How many other executives, how many other future leaders, how many other philanthropists am I bringing along with me? Am I impacting? Am I helping to understand that life is so much more than the wealth that we acquire or the titles that we acquire, the offices and the awards.
It's really about service. And so my life mission has been I don't want to be the only one at the table. I want to create room for the next 5, 10, 15. I want to give them all the tips, tricks, tools to make sure that they're equipped so that, again, I can leave a place better than I found it. And so it's been an honor to be the board chair of that organization. We just celebrated 20 years in existence of amazing founders John and Tammy Martin, and their mission is absolutely phenomenal. So I will probably be rolling off his boards here soon, now that I'm taking a pivot and doing some other things. But it's been. It's been wonderful. I feel like that's what we're created to do. We are, in fact, created to, yes, acquire our own success, but most certainly share that success with others and create room for others as well.
[00:25:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So because you left bank of America in last year, 2025, and so can you tell us what you're building now, or what does that look like? What does the next chapter look like for you?
[00:25:30] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. My radical sabbatical, it has been phenomenal.
So I got to the radical sabbatical because I knew that one. I wanted to create room for other people.
Sometimes we tend to crowd seats for a very long time. We've seen it all in the corporate space where someone has been in their seat for the last 30 years, and they're not moving until it is, in fact, time for them to retire. I don't believe in that type of leadership. I certainly believe that we have to intentionally create spaces for other folks to lead and get the experience.
And so it's been a really great experience for me. I knew it was time for me to take a break. I had worked very hard, Diana, since college. I interned all through college. I went to school at night, and I worked a corporate job throughout the day because I knew that my school, which I'm very proud of, Jackson State University, there weren't as many opportunities, they weren't as readily available for me. So I knew I had to very quickly create the credibility. I've worked, worked, worked, and did it all. Managing director. I'm one of the youngest African American female managing directors at the firm within 15 years. But I felt a little bit of burnout. I'll be honest with you. I felt burnout. I certainly wanted to be a little bit more present with my children, my family. There were some really strong events that happened in 2025 that helped influence my decision.
And so, yes, at the height of my career, I made the decision to take a halftime. I called on radical sabbatical.
Lots of conversations about that with so many peers, people who were asking questions, why on earth? Like, you're doing great. Why would you walk away in this economy? And it was the right thing for me, the time. And so it's been so much fun. Listen, I'm on the PTA mom list. I'm very excited about that. I never got a chance to do that before. I got to be a room mom, small to everyone else, really important to me because I would have to miss so much stuff on planes in and out all across the country.
So I've learned how to bake. It was small. I Learned how to bake, I learned how to do all those things. I got to go to band concerts. I got to be the mom who could pop up at the time, same school, and do the teachers appreciation breakfasts and all those things.
But I'm really excited to share that I wrote a book called out of the Yazoo Clay, which is a nameplay on my hometown in Mississippi, Yazoo City, Mississippi, and our family's surname, Claibon.
It talks about the journey from a very humble beginnings, from my great grandmother who was on a sharecropping plantation and decided she wanted something different. And so she scrapped cotton and saved money to buy the land that our family home actually still sits on Today in the 1940s in the Mississippi Delta. It talks about how I pulled on that inspiration and there was a sense of achievement and sense of education and the importance of that. It walks through my entire journey. And you know, the other side of that, honestly, Diana, is the pressure that comes with being the first in your family. I'm a first generation corporate executive and there's a pressure that comes with being the first and wanting to make your ancestors and your family proud. And there is a sense of neglect that also comes with trying to maintain that and trying to be everything to everybody. You want to be the best mom, you want to be the best spouse, you want to be the best philanthropist and board chair member. You want to be the best manager you can be. You want to be number one in every market you touch. And how that ultimately led to me having three strokes last year and I'm thankfully recovered from that. But sitting in that hospital room alone in the dark really provided some perspective for me. I was like, listen, I've spent the first half of my life attaining things and I've done that. But how many people have I really impacted? Like, truly, can I say that I've brought 15, 20 people along with me.
I've acquired all this wealth, but if I can't use it, if I can't enjoy it, what's the purpose of it?
And ultimately, I want to take some time to really understand what the second half of my career and my journey will look like. And so the book is all about that. It is available on presets sell right now on my website, www.theashleyexchange.com and I'm so excited to share that with the world. It is a very personal project that I feel a lot of people will be able to resonate with, especially first in their family.
And then Diana, to wrap it up, really Quickly, I have started this movement around radical sabbaticals called the Freedom Forward Fund and. Freedom Forward. Freedom Forward Fund. Yeah, the Freedom Forward Fund. It visits this concept that, you know, in every aspect of our life and in our culture, we are taught that you save money, put money in 401k, your retirement, you save money, buy a house, you do all these things, and then it's not until the end of your life that you get a chance to really enjoy the spoils of your labor. We save all of our gratification until retirement, right? And the reality is, one of the things that kind of helped wake me up was one not only my own illness that I've been able to recover from, but certainly others around me. I just started to observe people would save all this money for retirement, to travel, to do all the things that they wanted to do. And then by the time they got there, Diana, they couldn't do it. They were ill, their bodies were broken down, or in some cases, they passed away. My mother in law passed away three months before she got ready to retire, quite literally.
And so it put in my mind, why are we waiting to rest?
Who says that that's the right thing to do? Why can't we be strategic? Just like we save for our favorite everything else? I mean, I told you about my bags and how much I would go out and buy those bags and save for them. But we save for concerts, we save for vacations.
Why can't we strategically put money to the side to take a halftime, to take a break when we're in good health, when again, there's no crisis and when we can really take the time to understand what we want the second chapter or the second half of our life to look like. And so this movement is really about creating the financial tools, making sure people have a good understanding of what or how to leverage a radical sabbatical, how to save for a radical sabbatical. I wish somebody had told me because I wouldn't have had to dip into my emergency fund, right? But I want to help the next person, right? As we talk about pouring and paying it forward, help the next person.
Though culturally, we're taught that we have to wait until the end of our lives to enjoy our savings. And we can be strategic and do a little bit of that now and then again, have the energy to go into the second half and finish strong and so excited to move forward with that. And we'll be sharing more about that certainly in months to come.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: Oh, my God, I thank you for this story. I mean, I'm. They always say the most dangerous year in a man's life is the year of his birth and the year of his retirement.
And I always thought it was because they were just so bored once they were retired that they, you know, either would drink too much and get into a car accident or they. But then I'm thinking maybe they started having strokes near the end of their work life and they quit. And then they, you know, I don't know.
Your retirement's kind of also a modern construct. I think it started in, in the 19th century during Otto von Bismarck. You know, he united Germany. I think during that time they forced people into retirement.
So it's kind of a modern thing. And I, I think in Okinawa and one of those blue zones, people only they don't retire. They, the grandparents just, you know, they only work 20%, but they take care of their grandchildren. Because I, I think the value of taking care of your kids isn't properly captured in the way we calculate gdp, for example.
[00:33:29] Speaker A: I agree.
Yeah.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: Like, there's a book by.
Her name is McCall M A C A L. It's called who Cooked Adam Smith's Dinner?
And Adam Smith was a Scottish economist who was largely credited with creating how we. How we measure the health of an economy today.
He did not calculate his mother's labor cooking him dinner. He didn't calculate that in the value of the service he was receiving.
[00:33:59] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, I gotta read that book. Okay, I, I gotta go find that book right after this. That is awesome. That is, you know, it, it is, It's a far concept. Like, we think about it very, in a very siloed way. Right? Value, a holistic value. When really there are so many different aspects. As we think about quality of life, we tend to think quantitatively. Like, okay, I've acquired this many assets. I've done this. I've done this. I checked the box.
But one, all the people who've poured into you, right, Thinking about intrinsic value. But more importantly, there's so much more to life than just checking the boxes. And that's what my life experience taught me that, you know, life is meant to be lived and it, it's not just about acquiring a certain amount of wealth. None of it means anything really.
When you're in a hospital room on a floor of a lot of other people.
Nobody cared that I was a managing director and I had done all these things and I had a certain amount of money in the bank. They didn't care. They were just really more concerned about my health and I was more concerned that I would be able to live to be with my children again. And so I. This concept that I'm introducing is asking people to look beyond the metrics. We talked about GDP beyond the metrics. What is going to bring you the most joy and at the end of your life when you are 80, 85, 90, hopefully we all live very long lives.
But will you be satisfied with the way that you lived your life? And if the answer to that is I'm not sure, then it may be time to pause, maybe time to pause or strategically plan a pause. Because I'm never going to encourage anybody to walk away for your, your, your source of living. I'm not gonna encourage you to do that, but I would encourage you to start thinking about a strategic pause so that you have the time and space and room beyond a three day weekend, beyond a two day, two week vacation from work, beyond a six week sabbatical, to really understand and reground yourself on who you are and what you want your life to reflect at the end of your life.
[00:36:05] Speaker B: So tell me, how did that sabbatical, what did it look like? I mean, did it start when you were in the hospital?
[00:36:12] Speaker A: You know, it didn't start when I was in the hospital. Um, I was still determined to get back to it in the hospital. Right. This is me with again, still not fully rehabilitated. Right. I have to be quite literally in a chair rolling out of hospital. But I'm, you know, planning in my mind, the planner. I'm planning about how I'm going to get back to it. And I'm going to give myself three weeks, right? Very ambitious, three weeks to be back in healing. So now I'm going to, you know, I'm still looking at calendars and all these things, the things I got to do before year end.
And Diana, I will tell you, it became very clear to me when I looked in my children's eyes and they were frightened to death to see their mom in that capacity, that they needed me in a different way. They needed me in a different way. You know. Recently lost my mother in law pretty abruptly, fairly young again, getting ready to retire. Just you know, the way life moves and my family needed me. And so it was a tough decision to say, listen, I'm walking away from everything I've worked for, everything I've trained for, now I've acquired it and now I'm choosing to walk away. There was a bit of, I won't say depression, but there was a lot of self doubt, like are you Making the right decision. Like, what does this look like? What do you do with yourself every day? I've never been one that stayed at home. I didn't know what that meant. Does this mean I gotta cook every day?
Is my spouse expecting me to bake cakes and have it ready when he comes? What does this look like? So for the first few weeks, I sat there.
I just sat there. I did exactly what I needed to do to provide for my children and my spouse. But there was a little bit of a depression there because I didn't know who I was. I was outside of the titles I had acquired ever since I was a little girl. It was education. Get your education, you go to college. You go to college, you get a good job, you do all these wonderful things. And I did not understand who I was. So there was a lot of self discovery that had to happen in that period. And a lot of sitting in silence and sitting silent with my thoughts and getting comfortable with myself again without being Ashley, the overachieving managing director.
Um, and I think we have to give ourselves space to do that. I, I'm really grateful for that period. Uh, but it was very uncomfortable. Very uncomfortable. Oh, my gosh. Um, and I already done it a couple of times in my mind. I was like, oh, I'm. I'm stopping this. I'm going back to work. I. I gotta figure out something else to do. But then it became okay. Now I'm comfortable with myself again.
Now I. I'm learning who I am. I'm leaning back into my passion, who I was, which is the essence of, of the book. Out of the Yazoo, Clay. Getting back to my roots, who I was before I assumed this identity. And then it becomes, now, how can I use this really cool opportunity? Because again, I did not look at it as I'm having to sit down because of my health. How do I frame this in such a way that it feels like an opportunity to recreate myself? Let's do some stuff I've never done before. I ended up being a national media contributor. I ended up being on Fox News Weekly.
Yeah, I ended up doing News Nation, Newsmax.
Just contributing from an economic perspective, obviously, on all the things that are happening, giving some political commentary. I try to stay away from that, but I ended up being on the news. I ended up being on TV at least twice to three times a week. I wrote this book.
I got a chance to be more present with my children, which was really important to me. You don't know how important than that is until you think you don't have time anymore until you are faced with the reality that the balance of time that you thought you had doesn't really exist. It becomes very fragile.
We've reconnected as a couple, my spouse and I, and I've leaned very heavily into my philanthropic work.
And so I don't know what the second half holds for me. I am starting to feel the itch to get back into the game, but I am finding ways to learn who I was and certainly giving myself room to evolve and grow. And that is a really, really cool space to be in. When you're a woman of a certain age, that is a really cool space to be in.
[00:40:28] Speaker B: So sounds to me like you're integrating the different parts of yourself, like the part, you know, the, the. The. The. The Mississippi. That's why you're going back into your history, into your family history. And then you've got the bank executive and you've got the mom, and you're kind of bringing it all together, like these different parts, right. And create this new Ashley who is doing beautiful things philanthropically, being a good mom.
Who else? Who knows what else you're going to be doing?
How do you make sure that this new thing that you're doing doesn't become the next stressful chapter? Kind of like bank of America was for you?
[00:41:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I want to be clear. Bank of America wasn't stressful for me.
[00:41:12] Speaker B: It wasn't?
[00:41:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
It was my own unhealthy ambition.
If I could be very honest, self awareness is something else that I've discovered in this radical sabbatical. Right. It was my own unhealthy ambition, quite literally. Diana. I would get one promotion, and I was already thinking about the next three or four. I get one award or win one deal. It's massive. I'd given myself quite literally two hours to celebrate. I'm being very truthful.
And my husband would say, we should celebrate. This is huge. And I'm like, nope. I'm already thinking about the next five deals. Right. So it was this unhealthy ambition that I had created for myself.
And so the bank was wonderful.
Gave me such incredible opportunities to a little girl from Mississippi to spread her wings and fly, obviously, coupled with a lot of hard work. Right. It wasn't given to me. I earned it.
But they were not stress factors for me in that sense. But to your question, how do I not let these new things, you know, bubble up? So interesting. I am not. I originally was not an Instagram person. True story. I did social media but more as someone who observed social media, right, I was one of those perpetual, I'll scroll and read everybody else's everything. But I didn't necessarily contribute in a way or put myself out there in a way where it was comfortable, right. For me. I had to get comfortable very fast with an amazing team around me who pushed me to get on social media and start sharing my voice and sharing my thoughts and sharing my opinions, getting on news and sharing my opinions. And I will tell you, just this weekend there was a issue or a hot topic out there that I was at my son's baseball game. I should have been paying attention to the game, but I was at his game, like writing notes in my iPhone, like of what I should say and how I should say it, et cetera. And my 7 year old son comes to the gate and he's getting ready to bat. He comes to the gate and he says, are you gonna watch the game or are you gonna be on your phone all day? I was like, golly.
So it's like valid point. And so since he said that and again helped me with my own self awareness because it was very quickly becoming this thing where now I'm all consumed by overachieving in this one area of my life, this idea and constructed social media and really that's a whole different conversation. Outside validation, which is something that all of us as a society, we gotta work on because it doesn't equate to money, it doesn't equate to satisfaction. It's just likes, right? Different conversation for a different day. But that helped me to understand that I gotta set the right boundaries, right? I have to not allow myself to get so consumed by something. So what does that mean? If I'm gonna be in a moment, if I'm there and I say I'm there with a friend, at a baseball game, at a church event, having a direct conversation with someone, I have to be intentional about putting something down. You cannot be fully present two places at once. We were taught that we were supposed to do that. And you're supposed to be able to do 15 things at once. It's not reality. So now I will very, very quickly shut the phone off for tonero salad. Now that doesn't stop me. I'm not gonna tell you that I'm gonna not habitually picking the phone up to make sure nothing's happening. But I'm not going to create space for that thing to consume me when I'm supposed to be present with whoever is in front of me at that moment. And so it's setting the right boundaries.
At some point when I was writing the book, I would stay up all night and my spouse would say, you're starting it again. That's the same thing that I saw before. Like, you're burning the midnight oil. And I was like, well, no, this is different because this is a passion and I have to help people. So I need to write this down while I have it. He's like, go to bed. Like, what are you doing? Like, go to bed. And he was right most times. And so it's again, just setting the right boundaries, recognizing the patterns, right? And being able to be self aware and saying, you know what? I don't wanna make this an idol. So I'm going to close this and I'm gonna be present because that's the whole point of me taking this radical sabbatical in the first place.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: You know what I'm thinking, Ashley? I'm thinking, thank God you have your family, your son. Just like, I would love that. How he said, mom, you gonna be here or are you gonna be on your phone?
[00:45:32] Speaker A: It hurt my feelings a little bit, Diana. I was like, oh. And then you called me out in front of the other moms. That's. Listen, if anybody's listening, do not call your mom out in front of the other moms at a baseball game. Gosh. And all the moms, like, I was like, oh, the walk of shame. I tried to joke around it, right? I tried to make light of it, but I was like, he's so right. Like, let me put this thing down. But yeah, they are my truth tellers. They are. They are my truth tellers and I'm grateful for them. And so many great friends who helped to keep me out.
Unhealthy ambition that I tend to lean into just for the sake of giving your very best and giving 150%. But the unhealthy ambition is what set me into strokes. And so now I'm, you know, trying to manage that and control it as much as possible.
Yeah.
[00:46:16] Speaker B: Ah. I have had my children say things
[00:46:18] Speaker A: like that to me too, by the way. Ashley.
[00:46:21] Speaker B: I remember. I remember once I was obsessing about a boyfriend and we were.
I was in the car with my daughter and she said.
And I was telling her about some of the philanthropic projects I was involved in. And she's like, mom, focus on that. Don't focus on him.
[00:46:38] Speaker A: Out of the mouth of babes, right? It's insane.
[00:46:40] Speaker B: There were no witnesses, but I still felt embarrassed.
[00:46:45] Speaker A: I get it. Listen, we teach them to speak their minds. But sometimes it's to a fault because listen, there are some conversations that I have to have with my children. I know you probably have experienced this too, like, dang, I hate to taught you how to speak your mind because you know, there's some things you don't have to say, like.
But you know, I'm so grateful for parents like you and I who are able to take advantage of the children being able to speak their minds and give truth at the times where it's needed.
And if we can't hear it from the children that we've carried for nine months and we saw them from babies to the adults or kids that they are now, then who better to tell us or be our truth tellers, you know? So I, I'm grateful.
[00:47:29] Speaker B: I have a 21 year old son who lives in Boston.
[00:47:33] Speaker A: The other day I was like, well,
[00:47:33] Speaker B: we could go, you know, Cause I haven't really seen him much. I was like, we could go to the movies, we can go out for dinner, we can do this. He's like, mom, that sounds like a date.
Go, go find yourself a boyfriend.
[00:47:44] Speaker A: Okay. That may have been too much of the truth. You know, I recant everything. I just.
[00:47:49] Speaker B: So now we have this joke where I'm like, I need to get a life, you know, I love it.
[00:47:53] Speaker A: Oh man, that's amazing.
[00:47:55] Speaker B: I want, I want to go back to what you were saying about the sort of ambitions, unhealthy ambition and yeah. How to find like the boundary so that you can stay safe. But at the same time having. What would healthy ambition look like?
[00:48:12] Speaker A: You know, being from very humble beginnings, being from Mississippi. Right. There's a lot settled in that region of the country. Right.
Being only four generations from slavery, quite literally. You know, I loved you from the first time that we met. And so I couldn't feel comfortable with anybody else but you in sharing this. But there is a chip that is on your shoulder, right.
That I have a point to prove.
Right. My ancestors didn't get a chance to do all these things or I'm a woman, let's take it from that perspective. I'm a woman in a male dominated environment or industry. So I have a point to prove that I deserve to be in the room.
And I'm going to prove that point every time I get a chance. So I'm going to work five times harder, ten times harder. And let's lean into that a little bit. We already know that there's a gender pay gap. We already know that only 15% of C suite executives are women, right? All these things.
As a woman, you're knowing and kind of caring as that chip that I talked about on your shoulder. Unhealthy ambition is. I gotta prove every time I get a chance that I deserve to be here. And so I'm gonna be the first to answer a question. I'm gonna first to finish the assignment. I'm gonna be number one in every market that I touch, because I have to prove that I deserve to be here. For me, that was. I came from Mississippi, very proud to be from Mississippi, but I came from Mississippi. I came from an hbcu. I didn't go Ivy League, right?
I was recruited by this organization, and I have to prove that I earned my seat. I don't want anybody thinking that someone gave this to me.
And in doing that, you create this notion of keep moving the goalposts for yourself, right? Like I told you, I get one promotion, but I'm already thinking about the next five and what the next five years look like. I acquire a certain salary level. I'm already thinking about how I'm gonna get to the next four or five hundred thousand dollars, right? I won an award, and I'm already thinking about, okay, what are the next five awards, right, that I'm going to go after. Because it is rooted in proving. It is rooted in proving yourself that you deserve to be here. Healthy ambition is. I already know that I am.
I've proven the point. And so now I can give out of abundance from that place. It removes this unhealthy competition that you create with yourself, because really, at the end of the day, you're in competition with yourself. You may believe you're in competition with your peers, but you're only hurting yourself by moving the goalpost. I should have celebrated more than two hours from now on that. Big deal, Diana. I should have had a glass of champagne and made myself the most beautiful charcuterie board and sat down at least for the night to celebrate this huge achievement. But instead, I was competing against myself to say, now, what's the bigger deal that you can win, Ashley?
Prove it to me. You can do it again, but this time, do it bigger. Healthy ambition says, well, I've won that, and I'm proud of myself and I'm going to keep my ambition. I want to keep working hard, but I'm going to allow myself to celebrate and realize that I've already become and I can give now because I'm not in competition with myself or anybody else. I can give from that place. It Takes the chip off your shoulder. That chip I was telling you about at the very beginning, it removes that chip. Because now I don't have any points to prove to anybody. I already know that I am already done it.
I've already. I earned my seat at the table. I'm in the room. Doesn't say that. I'm getting comfortable and I'm just gonna coax the rest of the way or coast the rest of the way. That's not what I'm saying. But it removes this need to prove a point to people, that you deserve to be there. And so that's how I found my gateway between unhealthy ambition, which was, I gotta prove that I deserve to be here as a black woman, as a woman, as someone who didn't go to Ivy League, Right. I gotta prove that I belong here. Versus I already know that I am.
I already know that I've done the work and now I can give to you from a place of healing, a place of knowing who I am, knowing what I bring to the table. And it removes that chip off my shoulder altogether.
[00:52:19] Speaker B: That is so beautiful. You've done some big work on yourself.
[00:52:23] Speaker A: I have a great therapist. Girl. She's amazing.
Which is another point. Get a therapist. Listen, you do not have to do this. This stuff alone. You don't have to do it alone. And there is this. There is this notion that especially women, strong women, I see it in men, too, but in society, there is this negative notion that if you have to go and talk to someone, that's a bad thing. No, that's what they are paid to do. That's why they went to school to do that. And so I encourage everyone, if you need to talk, get a sound therapist and someone that you can trust so that you can start to do the healing. It's so necessary in order for us to, as we talk about our children, create these healthy children who will someday be adults themselves. And I always pray that my children don't have to get therapists, because they may. And I'm going to encourage them to go get a sound therapist. It's not all in doing the work on your own. Get the help and resources that you need to get there.
[00:53:18] Speaker B: And especially seeing you now, I'm sure they're seeing. You know, it's like attraction, right? Not promotion. Like they see.
They see you thriving and smiling and joking around with the other mothers.
[00:53:29] Speaker A: And, you know, when I'm not being shamed out at a baseball game. Yes, I'm joking. All right.
[00:53:35] Speaker B: You took it like you didn't get angry with him, right? Yeah.
[00:53:38] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. My son talks about. He's like, mom, you are so much more pleasant now.
And one way it hurt my feelings because I was like, well, who the heck was happy for, right? Like, was I not pleasant to them before? But then it lets me know it's the point that you made. Diana, thank you for recognizing that, you know, there had been work and the work continues. It's not a one and done, but it helped me recognize that it was necessary because I want them to have pleasant memories of me. I don't want them to remember me as the mom who always prioritized everything and everybody else and, you know, the next promotion, overpaying attention at their.
Their baseball game or having to miss their band competitions, et cetera. So was a dual sense of feeling, of gratitude. Then it was like, oh, we gotta make sure we never return back to whoever that lady was before. That wasn't as pleasant for them.
[00:54:33] Speaker B: But also, the one takeaway I'm getting is that you now allow yourself to celebrate, which is huge, I think, also in terms of, like, creating habits. I don't know if you know, but tiny habits.
Part of the whole tiny habits recipe is, you know, you've got the. The trigger, and then you've got the behavior, and then you have to celebrate. To wire in the habit.
[00:54:56] Speaker A: Yes, I. My therapist loves that theory.
She.
She loves it. And she has coached me in ways to do small celebrations. So she'll quickly say, ashley, don't go buy a bag, because that's what we're getting rid of. Like, so we're not gonna go and buy this nice, very expensive piece to symbolize this sense of accomplishment. But let's find very tangible ways to do that. Connect with the earth, go outside, take some time, walk around the neighborhood, right?
Give yourself space to sleep. You don't do enough of sleeping and resting. And she would say, listen, I know you love coffee. I tried to wean off of coffee because. Because I am. I love, you know, me too, girl. I love a good. Listen, Starbucks will see me or any other coffee company, because I love supporting our small coffee stores here in town, too. But I would go celebrate with a cup of coffee. She'd say, listen, give yourself space, whatever that is for you. Give yourself space to relish in it. When I wrote, finished writing my last chapter, I went and got the biggest snow cone. I don't know if you know about, like, the snowballs, the snow cones.
I went and got the largest snow cone I could get. It reminded me so much of home back in Yazoo City where my grandfather, when we get all A's on a report card, he'd take us to get a snow cone. We couldn't readily afford those. Right. It wasn't like you're gonna be able to go and spend five or six thousand a snow cone every time you did something good. But we would go get snow cones. And so I said, you know what? I finished writing my book. I'm gonna give snow cone. I couldn't finish at that.
But it was just such a small way to give myself space in room without thinking about the next thing. I gave myself at least 24 hours, 48 hours to really relish in it. And then you jump back into it. So, yes, there, there are elements of that that I've adopted throughout this, this radical sabbatical, and it will be adopted in my second half too, whatever that looks like.
[00:56:52] Speaker B: Yeah, because it's also the tiny habit thing where you mentioned that you, the minute you would attain one level, you wanted to go another level. Whereas with earning habits, no, it's like do one pushup and celebrate and you're done.
Now you can go more. If all of a sudden there's like a twick, like a desire within you after you celebrate to do more than one pushup, but only if you really, really want to. But the idea being that you really need to be satisfied with the one.
[00:57:21] Speaker A: Yep. Where you are and being satisfied, finding satisfaction in being able to look back to how far you've come and where you are now and when you can always ground yourself on how far you've come where you started. That is the easiest way to find some level of satisfaction with the level you're at now versus thinking about, well, I want to be, you know, at X place by X number of years. We're taught culturally to always keep thinking about the next.
And the concept that you're you and I are talking about says, let me be satisfied, content with where I am. Not removing my ambition, but being content about where I am.
[00:58:03] Speaker B: So how can somebody, I'm thinking some of the people who listen to my podcast have inherited wealth and you know, they contrary to you because you were self made. You, you, you know, you came from those humble beginnings in Mississippi and you, you know, you, you, against all odds, you just climbed up, you know, the ladder and you like, it's like amazing. But what would you say to somebody who inherited wealth and probably feel a lot of shame around that and a lot of guilt that they're not Impressive in the same sense that you are. What would you tell them? I'm sure you encountered a lot of them when you worked at the bank.
[00:58:42] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, the first thing I would say is you shouldn't look left or right to compare yourself. It is quite natural for us to do that. In fact, there are a lot of theories that talk about how it's almost ingrained in us as children in school to always compare yourself to your peers. It comes quite naturally. There is a cultural thing there which we'll unpack, certainly. I hope we get to talk again. We'll unpack that.
But I had to unlearn this comparison of myself against others. And I always encourage people don't look left or right. Right. You run your journey, you run your course.
And so I would say that to anyone who has recently inherited wealth, listen, you don't have to be self made. You come from such a strong lineage of people who were thinking about that before you even existed.
So there is something to be proud of in that. No, you didn't originate it, but you have the opportunity to be the stewardhead right now. This is your chance to imprint your name in history. You have a white slate, a clean slate, to really make sure that you're preserving the legacy for the generations that come after you. And so there is no shame. And being from such a strong and very thoughtful lineage of people who wanted to ensure that you had the space to think and be creative and do all of these wonderful things with the resources that you needed. Right. So get rid of the shame. Get rid of the shame. And really use this as an opportunity to say, listen, I have an opportunity to submit my name in this family's history and the world's history. What am I going to do with this I opportunity? Who can I put around me that will help me understand what that goal should look like, how I should execute toward that goal. And I'm going to use these resources to make sure that this is my time to shine and this is my turn to really, really make an impact in this family and in the world. And so it is no walk of shame. I don't consider that I would tell my clients all the time, listen, you have come from a place and a people who were thinking about you before you were been born. That's amazing. That is amazing. That's amazing. And so guess what? You get a head start. So where the rest of us were struggling, right, to figure out how we were going to pay student loans and all those things, you have an opportunity to really Lean into your creativity. And I would encourage them to do that. Lean into that. Take this as your shot. You are now the steward of this wealth. What are you going to do with it? Right? And if you're confused about what to do with it, you don't know where to start because there's the reality of that, too. Especially if you were brought in a little bit later into the family plan and you know, this popped up out of nowhere and now you are having the pressure, right, of being the steward of the family story. Let's just pause here. You are now the steward of the family story. You're the steward of the family inheritance. You're the steward of the family legacy. That is a job by itself. And it's a pretty cool job. That is a pretty cool job. But going back to what I was mentioning before, if you feel any level of anxiety, get the right people around you. You know, there are advisors, there are folks who can help you really think about it in a strategic way. You are the author of this chapter in the family's history. What are they going to write about you?
What will be said about you? Right? Did you steward it well? Or did you, did you have more opportunity, right, to steward it in ways that could preserve the legacy just as it was preserved for you?
And so don't be intimidated by it. It is scary. There's a lot of pressure. Don't be intimidated by it. Own it. Own it as your chapter, right? And five and six generations down, they'll say, look what this person did in 2026 and how they changed the trajectory of our family's history and our legacy. That's the cool opportunity. So I told people to embrace it and don't be afraid of it. Get good people around you that you can really trust and will be your truth teller and will help you. And guess what? Take this opportunity and soar.
[01:03:09] Speaker B: I love that.
So when I put in the show notes, the link to your, the pre sales of your book, I will also put your. Your email address. Can people contact you if they want to, like get some advice, you know,
[01:03:24] Speaker A: so they can contact me through the website.
And so yes, on www.the t h e e ashleyexchange.com there are lots of places where it says contact Ashley. Reach out to Ashley. They can also find me on Instagram. Since now my team has forced me into social media, which we need to have a conversation offline about that. Oh my gosh, it is such a different world for me, but I am on Instagram. Heashleyexchange as well. And then I'm on LinkedIn. You can take the girl out of corporate, you can't take the corporate out of the girls. So yes, I regularly hang out on LinkedIn. I need to find a better habit, right? I need to go walking or doing something. But I'm on there as Ashley D. Varnadel as well. So I can be contacted in any of those three places.
[01:04:09] Speaker B: So you can help people who are looking to have that sabbatical maybe, or they're, they're maybe getting close to burnout or people who are maybe looking to maybe start their second chapter or their second life?
[01:04:26] Speaker A: Absolutely. There is, with the book, a workbook, a journal that I created that is rooted on something that I created called the Clay Method. It's confront, listen, align and yield. And it takes you through the journey of, okay, I need to confront who I am, what I've learned, the learned behaviors. Listen to myself align to what I want to be in the, then yield to that.
And so I say that to say that it's a companion to the book that I wrote. And if people are really seriously thinking about a pivot or a second half or just getting back to yourself, forgiving yourself, getting out of this unhealthy ambition into healthy ambition, that book and that workbook would be helpful. And yes, I am a resource for all of those things. We got a lot of cool things coming up as well. Seminars, conferences, things of that nature.
Oh yeah, it's, it's growing fast, Diana. It's almost like, oh, a level too fast. But I'm excited about it because this is really a space of healing. So, yeah, they can reach out to me for any of those things. I'd be glad to contact them and put them in contact with some really great therapists because I'm not a licensed therapist. I, you know, I, I can do investments all day, but I know and have, and I'm in contact with some really great people who can help help folks who are in these phases of life really find their way to the other side of it. So, yeah, they can reach out to me for any of the above.
[01:05:52] Speaker B: You know, there's a real need for like non affiliated financial advice because sometimes, you know, you, you know, you'll get, you know, somebody from bank of America or any bank and they're gonna, they, they're trying to sell you their products or, you know, their funds or whatever. You are now completely independent. So your advice is going to be free of those entanglements.
But I think it's really Valuable.
[01:06:17] Speaker A: It will be. It will be. And I have certainly made it a habit to forewarn folks, right. That, listen, this is not financial advice that, you know, this is. But if I were in the seat, this is what I would do. Right. And so, yeah, there is a very, very incredible freedom that comes when I haven't spent as much time in the industry as I have and being able to understand the numbers behind the numbers, which is why I think they have on the news, too. They want to understand what I know.
But being able to help people in a way that, again, is not pushing products on them or being salesy. It's just coming from a human to human interaction in ways that I would do it.
[01:06:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you're an insider who knows how they operate. And, you know, you could probably help people.
Like, here are some of the obstacles you're going to experience. And maybe, you know, you could. You could save people a lot of time and money.
[01:07:13] Speaker A: Are you giving me another business idea? Should I be doing consulting? I don't need anything else right now, Diane. I'm thinking about it.
[01:07:19] Speaker B: You are.
[01:07:20] Speaker A: You're planting some seeds. If I do start that consulting business, I'm going to credit you. I'm going to credit you.
[01:07:25] Speaker B: I mean, it's so rare. Like, you got a lot of people who are really good at relationships, really good at love, really good at health, and really good at financial. But it seems to me like you're able to kind of do them. Like, you've got. You're kind of an expert in all of them right now.
[01:07:39] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you for that notion.
[01:07:41] Speaker B: I don't want to do your marketing, but it just, you know, for somebody like me who's looking to work with someone, I would feel very comfortable working with you because you understand the financial stuff. A lot of people don't. They don't understand the lingo.
You know, they don't understand investments.
And also your attitude of, like, there's a lot of people who don't like inherited wealth and they'll be a little.
They'll have some limiting beliefs about that,
[01:08:11] Speaker A: but that is nothing for them to be. Again, I think it's a honor to be able to continue the legacy and again, put your own sauce on it. Right. A part of my family's from Louisiana, too, so we always talk about our Cajun seasoning. I tell my kids all the time, I don't want you to just take it as it is. Put your own sauce and your own Cajun seasoning on it. I want it to be Yours. And that's how people should think about merit, wealth. You have an opportunity to really put your own seasoning on it and cement yourself in such a way that generations will be talking about the great work that you did and how you stewarded it. And so it should be something to be celebrated. I know people have different views and I've run across so many people with different views, in some ways they resent it. And I think, nope, nope, nope, you have room to be creative, so let's tap into that creativity. How can we make this a creative opportunity for you to be and retain and really submit the family's name?
[01:09:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it's also hard because it's like, how do you then teach them? You can say be creative, but how do you teach them to have grit, which is what you had because you, you had to. And you, you know, you'd have that tenacity. I guess that ambition did get you moving forward.
[01:09:30] Speaker A: I think the grit will come.
Some of it is innate. You and I know this, right? Some of it, you, you're born with, et cetera.
But the grit in the case we're talking about, it will come because there will be obstacles as you are trying to steward your family as well.
It's not a cakewalk. It is not. I've sat with families, I've sat with folks who have inherited large sums of money and if they didn't have grit going into that conversation, they 100% had grit coming out of it because there are in fact obstacles. You have grifters, you have people who are trying to take advantage and siphon. Right.
Some of the resources that have been afforded. And so if someone doesn't have the grit going into it, trust that they are going to have all the smarts and all the things, especially with the right team, especially with the right advisors, because you're going to have to make tough decisions. And to make those tough decisions, you're going to need grit and you're going to need courage. And so while it may not have been created in the same way that my inherited grit came, certainly coming out of managing a family office, managing family wealth, creating and maintaining responsibility for that, you're going to certainly walk away with a certain level of grit. So I wouldn't underestimate the role of managing of that inheritance. It comes as a job. It is a full time job.
[01:10:53] Speaker B: Better be careful. Bank of America is going to try to come back and get you. I can see how you were really good for them.
[01:11:00] Speaker A: Oh, thank you. I've been looking forward to this conversation. I will tell you, we connected so organically the first time we talked to. So yes, we'll have to talk offline so that we don't bore the viewers. I'm glad to have you back. Let's figure how I could come back in a few months or so. But no, listen, I am really excited about the things on the horizon again. Would definitely encourage everyone, if you have time and capacity or if this story interests you, to follow me at any of the social media handles that I know will be tagged below. And Diana, I just want to thank you for creating a space for those of us who are overachievers and have overcome so many things. A space for us to feel comfortable and open. I absolutely love this work that you're doing.
This is mission work, this is passion work and I'm grateful that the seed had been planted into you to create this space for those of who us us to be comfortable and open and sharing with you. I appreciate you so much.
[01:12:01] Speaker B: Thank you, Ashley. I couldn't have said like an ending sentence better than you.
Thank you, Ashley for coming on. You're an inspiration to everybody.
[01:12:11] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
[01:12:16] Speaker B: If this episode landed for you, share it with someone who might need to hear it.
[01:12:21] Speaker A: And if you, if you haven't already,
[01:12:23] Speaker B: subscribe so you don't miss what's coming. But here's the real thing. I want you to know if you're carrying something you can't talk about, if you have every resource except someone who actually understands what wealth costs. I work one on one with people like you navigating exactly that. You can reach me@diana oehrli.com thanks for listening.
