Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: What do you think is the one thing you'd love to see entrepreneurs do that they're not doing?
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I've met so many people that say I wish to do something entrepreneurial, but they don't make the commitment necessary to drive it forward. But if it's something somebody really wants to do. Half measures availed us. Nothing is a very good phrase from the recovery program. It's very hard to lift your company off the ground if you're not all in.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: I'm Diana Earley, and I've spent most of my life learning firsthand what privilege actually costs. The legacy control, the family expectations, the guilt of feeling trapped in a life everyone thinks you should be grateful for. If you've ever wondered why having everything still feels like something's missing, you're in the right place.
Welcome to pressures of privilege.
Grant Calda was my first coach.
That was years ago, before I became a coach myself. Today he runs Flit. Am I saying that right?
[00:01:03] Speaker B: It's actually. You're close. It's Fleet.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: Fleet F L Y T. A coaching platform.
And he's been sober for 25 years.
We share that recovery foundation. But what I really want to talk to Grant about is something he said that stuck with me, that most people carry limiting beliefs about themselves that simply aren't true, beliefs that keep them small.
And Grant has spent his career helping leaders see past those beliefs. And I want to know what beliefs he had to unlearn himself.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: Wow. I love this topic. Dinah, this is.
We're starting out of the gate with a real firecracker.
It is one of my favorite topics, actually.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: You helped me a lot.
What was it, 12 years ago?
[00:01:54] Speaker B: I mean, and you helped me, too, because you were the. You were one of the first people I ever coached. So you dared to start the coaching journey with me. I think it was around when I finished my coaching education and we did a journey together for several years. And I'm super appreciative, but that, you know, you helped me develop and learn from the beginning, and I learned a lot from you and your perspective on personal development, professional development. We had so many topics. I was coaching somebody that had a lot of information that I could use as a coach, actually. So it's mutual appreciation.
[00:02:37] Speaker A: And I didn't know what I was getting into. But then when you opened up my eyes to what coaching was, and you. It was unbelievable. It was so powerful.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: I'd almost love to interview you about your journey. I know we're here to talk to me, but just the things I've Followed from a distance. What you've been publishing all this time, what you've been putting out there, sharing knowledge, your, the journey and everything.
And I'd love to fill in the blanks too. Of what, I don't know. I think coaching is something, you know, we related on quickly. I think we probably got into coaching facing our limiting beliefs. Actually, you know, you have to dare to follow your heart.
[00:03:17] Speaker A: I was trying to remember some of those limiting beliefs I had back then. I thought I was stuck forever.
And that was the one thing got me unstuck.
[00:03:26] Speaker B: I mean, I had a pivotal experience linked to my whole journey based on the cornerstone of loading bliss. So I felt stuck in my job and my work and I signed up for Tony Robbins, Unleash the Power Within.
I sent my friend, my best friend, Basil Hadar a ticket.
He met me there. And the first night, for any of you who don't know Tony Robbins, who's a guru, self development, personal development guru, meta coach, and he does these different seminars around the world. And one of them, his most famous one, is called Unleash the Power within, which is like a four day event.
And the first day when you get there, he addresses the audience and says, what's your limiting belief?
And so you're confused. You've just arrived, you've been traveling, and you spend the entire like afternoon and evening analyzing a limiting belief that you have. And then you do a firewalk and you walk on hot coals. You literally walk physically on hot cold. So I did this with like 10,000 people. He asked the whole audience to come up with something. So my limiting belief was that I was too old to do an MBA and not capable to do one. So all night long he used these NLP techniques where like, he made us pinch our nose and say in a funny voice, I'm too old and I'm not capable of doing lithium. An mba. And then you go, that's bullshit. I can do an mba. I'm young enough and I am capable and for those and sort of make hand motions and stuff. And. And then the firewalk is a metaphor because we all. Limiting beliefs are really about something that you believe is true. But in the end, is it actually true? Is it a reality? And he talked about challenging these beliefs because they prevent us from manifesting our destiny or taking steps forward.
So I like, at midnight I like walked across the fire coals and the next day I registered for the MBA or I sent an application in, the next day I went online and I sent an inquiry in and I Wanted more information. But that led to me applying for an mba, doing an mba.
Then I got asked to develop a leadership program for the MBA at the Stockholm School of Economics.
And then I became a coach there and got my coaching degree and went on to do leadership programs. Coaching programs. And my software company was born out of that.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: You know, you. You blasted that limiting belief out of the water.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it was incredible. And if we think about it, some of the things we have the toughest limiting beliefs about are something incredibly important to us, you know, something we have a great fear or anxiety of or. Yeah, it's a lack of self confidence in, but it prevents us from doing something that is very important to us in some way, shape or form.
And that's why I feel it's like a huge pivot, and it's a great skill to develop to challenge your limited belief.
What about you? I mean, what comes to your mind.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: About my old limiting beliefs? Yeah, that I couldn't be single and alone.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: I got you.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: And now I'm single and alone and very happy with that. And that sounds kind of counter to what society likes. They like people matched up. But right now, I'm.
I think I'm going through a getting to know myself period.
You know, I've been raising children, being in relationships. I never really was alone before having children, so I think I needed this time to figure out who Diana is and who knows, I might end up with somebody down the road. But I.
When I met you, I was exiting a relationship, and I didn't think it was possible to be alone. I didn't think I could leave Gstaad. Remember? I was kind of stuck here.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: Right. And you're doing this podcast from your Gstaad home, right?
[00:07:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm here on vacation and also exploring some of the good aspects of being here. At the time when you and I were working together, I was very much feeling stuck. Like I couldn't. I didn't feel like I could leave. And now I know that I can leave. It's also this attachment to people, places and things.
You know, this was a place, there was a person.
Now I've got an attic full of things that I have to get rid of or not get rid of process. And I'm dreading that. That's my next hurdle.
So maybe. Grant, what do you think? Do you think I can do it?
[00:08:18] Speaker B: We're on the topic of limiting belief.
You can definitely do it.
I got taught in coaching school that things like that are. They're called tolerations.
You know, we Tolerate a full addict.
It's there. And. But it's such a relief to take care of this thing that we've tolerated over time. Like, they taught us to coach people to, you know, occasionally, like, go through their toleration list and knock a few things down. It's just. It's like a broken handle on your front door or like a pipe in your bathroom that doesn't work or full act, you know, it's. It's incredibly relieving on the mind because we carry all these things around that we're tolerating and we just think, I can't get to it. You know, I don't have enough time for it. Or. It's overwhelming, you know, but it is such a relief when you. You take it on. My parents sold their New York City apartment two years ago and transferred everything out to their place in Southampton. And my mom has had this overwhelming sort of feeling all our lives, stacked up in boxes everywhere. And when we go home, she really wants to enlist us to help her, like, get rid of it, take it, you know, take it back to our homes, sort it out.
So I can relate to this kind of, you know, boxes of life around.
[00:09:42] Speaker A: You know, what did they see in me back then that I couldn't see in myself?
[00:09:46] Speaker B: When we first started talking, I mean, one of the goals that we talked about was kind of. I mean, you had several things that you were thinking about. You were thinking about your career, what, how to evolve. I mean, you've been in publishing, philanthropy, and you were sort of contemplating, you know, do I do a different type of publishing? Do I continue to work and do these articles for the way I've been doing it? You also were thinking about where you want to live and then also relationships.
And through that, you started sharing with me this, like, vast, sort of personal, professional, like, health.
You were, you were doing a lot of things in developing yourself. Like, I mean, there was a lot. You were doing a lot of work on health.
And I mean, I just didn't know when I met you that you, like, had all this.
You were studying these things, you were putting them into practice. And I also remember something else about you. You were quite disciplined about what you were doing. Like, a lot of times I'll coach somebody and they'll. They'll. It's human nature. They'll do something for, like, two or three weeks.
But you would do things.
I mean, it's not like you're inhuman and, you know, entirely perfect, but you were doing things consistently with discipline when it came to Physical fitness. Like you would go into different types of physical fitness, then you go into different types of nutrition, and then you go into different types of like mental reflection activities, learning. I mean, you know, you did the, the recovery journey and more than one type of recovery journey. I wasn't aware of that when I met you.
And I mean, I coach a lot of people who work on themselves, obviously. But I remember just thinking like, you should, you should develop your career in a way where you're empower, you know, supporting or empowering others and developing themselves.
So that's what I, I didn't know in the beginning, but I remember thinking quite often and talking to you about, like, how, how can you evolve and develop in a career, basically coaching people in different ways.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I remember you telling me that and then I kind of ignored that. And then I had a massage therapist in Lausanne who, you know, he opened up after a few sessions about his conflict with his wife and I, and he said, what do you think I should do? And I said, well, just write a list of what, what you're grateful for about her that you're forgetting. And then he did that. And then the next session he's like, you know what? I fell in love with her all over again. You should be a coach. He told me.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: That was like a moment of clarity for you.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: Well, it was just like another person telling me I should be a coach. Yeah, so he, he did that list and he said it really helped his.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Marriage follow up and try and resolve things. I mean, whether it's a relationship or whether it's a work relationship, um, romantic friendship, whatever.
A lot of times in the coaching room, people will have an issue like they're in alignment with somebody for a period of time, then they get out of alignment and then there's not enough communication happening for resolution or to get it to a better place. I'm not necessarily talking about conflict resolution or like psychological sort of therapy or anything. I'm just saying like quite. It could be a business issue, but it's quite powerful when you support people in coaching that they're really bothered by where things are and they move to a place where they proactively try and drive like some sort of alignment with the other person.
And it can be super satisfying to do that.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Can you talk more about alignment?
[00:13:53] Speaker B: I'll often do a visual with my hands when I'm coaching somebody and, and that's what I'm doing. Showing you the audience can't see that. But like, everything's moving a straight line for A while, but over time, now I'm crinkling my hands together and twisting them up. You know, you get to this point where you're out of alignment, there's more friction going on, there's lack of trust, there's misunderstanding, there's thoughts start to go to people's heads and they get amplified and the thoughts get bigger and bigger because they don't talk to each other. They don't get an opportunity to give each other feedback about how things make them feel or to ask questions. And it's incredible how you know, if, if you do sit down. I mean, I'm saying like what's probably the most common sense.
But it's. We often get stuck. Usually always like speaking about it improves the situation.
I know in my relationships, when I let it build and don't talk about it, you know, it, it's never a good thing, but it, I can be afraid to bring it up with somebody and I'm, I'm worried that they'll ban and me in the conversation or whatever. But usually nine times out of ten, if you talk with respect and you even ask questions versus make accusations, you can have this incredible feeling of alignment and trust again after you do that with each other. So quite often in the coaching, when there's some sort of discomfort, dysfunction, lack of alignment doesn't always work.
But I try and coach people to, and I call it like have an alignment meeting with the person versus like conflict resolution because that's, I don't know, it puts the brain in another place. It's more like, let's get aligned. What do you, what are your thoughts on alignment?
[00:15:54] Speaker A: I, I'm thinking of integrity and, and when I'm out of integrity, I feel like I'm also out of alignment. In this example that you gave, it's more about communication rather than values.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: I've actually worked with trust a lot in my coaching and leadership programs.
So quite often in the leadership programs I do, they could be like long, like 1 year, 18 month leadership programs and part of its coaching. But in the group sessions, we'll often do a half day or a full day on trust.
And as part of that we present like some scientific evidence what is trust? You know, and it comes from different ways. But one of the things you can build trust is by being authentic and people detect whether you're in alignment with what you say you're gonna do and also your comfort with yourself. Like, are you actually in alignment with your values? Are you, are you saying what's true to you?
Um, and when you do that, you put people in another state because you're more comfortable in your own skin.
You're more relaxed, you know, and that in. In turn, people sense that and then they have more trust.
It can also come with being vulnerable, you know, so being vulnerable means admitting something that might be perceived as a weakness or, you know, maybe asking for help or telling people how you feel today. And that's, again, like, aligned with who you are versus just everything's fine.
It's like, you know, you come in the room, you're like, actually, today I had a really rough day. On the way into the office, my daughter called and told me that she'd gotten a bad grade on a test, and I'm really worried about her. It's not that you have to reveal all your personal information, but, you know, the more you can share people like your true state, what's going on, you can increase the sense of trust and relaxation in yourself. Brene Brown, she does so much work with authenticity. She's done all this research showing, like, the. The importance of just being your authentic self.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: And the trust, too. You know, her. Her acronym. Braving Boundaries, Reliability, Accountability, Vault Integrity, Non Judgment and Generosity of Spirit.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: Whoa.
Wow. Yeah, wow.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: I just. I love it because she used her daughter as an example. Her daughter came home from school and some kid told her secret to the rest of the class. And so she said, I'm never going to trust anybody ever again. Brene Brown had to explain to her daughter, I guess that's how she came up with the whole framework was that acronym, the elements of trust are like marbles in a marble jar. So you don't disqualify somebody for just making one mistake, but if they continuously make, you know, these little mistakes, then you take away a marble jar every time that they. They do something that's untrustworthy. And sometimes when they do something great, then you put one back in.
[00:19:13] Speaker B: I love that analogy. A marble jar. That's a great visual. You know, you're. Because, yeah, the trust, it is like, it's different elements and. Or different parts, you know, and you can diminish it, but you don't have to, like, destroy it, you know, entirely, you know, and you can build it back up.
Then again, you hear that phrase, like, it could take, you know, 10 years to build a reputation in one moment to tear it down, you know. So one thing I've learned, when I do my lectures about trust and my workshops, I always say to people, you can never, you know, work enough on it.
You know, the Best, one of the best coaches I ever know, a woman named Stena Pampquist.
I remember when I first started coaching, I was working with a group of people and I was like, I'm going to put in five minutes for an icebreaker and that's going to be like how I build trust.
And she just laughed at me and she was like, Grant, you need like, you know, you could put in an hour, two hours, you know, you know, all the time. You, you know, you'll always get more time out of building trust than you lose by spending on it. And, and she's been right. Like in all the leadership coaching stuff, I've always like, included it. It's like a larger part of it and the leaders always seem to appreciate it very much. Like, and it is like different marbles because there's different parts of trust. You know, like you say, it's authenticity, it's all the things Connie mentioned. It's also your, your capabilities as well. Do you have the capabilities to do what you say you can do? You know, and also are you reliable? You know, do you show up and do what you said you would do? You know, those kinds of things. So it's just mixed. But my favorite one is being vulnerable.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: Yeah. How long does it take you to do an icebreaker? Now.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: The worst is like when you have a workshop and for some reason you only have 10 minutes or I never loved those, but I, I can do something in 10 minutes, but I prefer like 20 minutes or something like that. At a minimum.
I, I love to give a little more time to land people in the room because they have so many things on their mind and I love to get them comfortable, connected with the people in the room. Quite often like I, I like to do something where they're interacting with each other and then maybe the whole room and different ways, shapes and forms. I love to have that kind of moment, both in the beginning, the check in, I call it.
So to have a moment to check in and a moment to check out. And it's not so, so important what people do you want? Good. Check in and check out things. I've learned a lot of things over the years, but just that moment to kind of land them, get the other things off their mind and get them in the room versus in their head, out of the room.
[00:22:24] Speaker A: I wanted to segue to the recovery subject. Can you tell us what happened 25 years ago when you quit?
[00:22:30] Speaker B: I haven't had a drink of alcohol in 25 years or any type of mind altering substance. I had A moment in my youth when I was 30, when I had a moment of clarity that certain aspects of my life were unmanageable in ways that I didn't want them to be. I wasn't a daily drinker, but I didn't seem able to control drinking.
When I did drink in the way I wanted to control it, I discovered a 12 step recovery program that changed my life. I could talk for hours about it. What, what would be like, really interesting to hear.
[00:23:15] Speaker A: Well, how did it change what you thought was possible?
[00:23:18] Speaker B: I mean, it was, it was incredible. Like sometimes we'll joke in 12 step recovery programs because we will, we'll be like, God, you know, everyone could benefit from this. I won't be like, it's too bad normal people don't have something like this because it gives you so many tools.
It gives you a community of people that are all working on themselves to better themselves in different ways and similar ways.
So you get this amazing group of people. And also it's very transformative. So you see the power of human change, like, I mean, in epic, legendary ways. People that were hopeless become, you know, contributing members of society in different ways or become super achievers or even if they're not out there changing the world, maybe they're just changing the lives of the people right next to them. And it's, it's a transformation for the positive, you know, it's.
And so with all the tools, I think you learn to basically be a better person amongst people.
You get tools to deal with change, with challenges, with struggles, with disappointments, any type of challenge or whatever. You get like these amazing tools. So for me, I mean, I took all those tools. That's. I think it's part of the reason I got into coaching as well, because I loved seeing people transform and I love seeing myself transform as well.
So. And I think it gives you a toolkit for anything, for work, for family issues, for like your personal activities, whatever they may be. It's like a suitcase of great knowledge you can use in different ways. And you never stop learning, you never stop growing with it if you continue to participate. And the community is very welcoming. So you can go anywhere, to any country and a 12 step program and walk into a room and there's a meeting and people will greet you warmly and try and take care of you and include you immediately. It's very inclusive.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: Even in Sweden where you are.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Yeah, Sweden is amazing for that. Yeah. One of the biggest changes I've seen in Sweden since I arrived is the coming of conventions when I first sort of started the recovery program in Sweden.
There were some people there that had been recovering in the US before and they had done a lot of conventions and they started bringing a lot of conventions over to Sweden. I think the conventions are amazing. These are things that people can attend from anywhere in the world. Conventions for me are something I really believe in because sometimes when you go to your regular meetings, they could just be a habit you do all the time.
But the convention's really being an excitement, you know, spark a newness to things, to really make things come alive.
So I've been traveling for conventions to Germany, quite a bit, Norway, the us.
[00:26:41] Speaker A: What patterns do you see, like from recovery that might show up with how you coach leaders?
[00:26:46] Speaker B: I think in recovery programs you get a lot of feedback from people around you and you develop a certain humility to learn and develop.
I think a lot of people in leadership get stunted in their career when they never get that leadership position. They apply for it and they get rejected several times and they stay as an individual performer where they don't develop the ability to be humble and take in feedback from others and evolve.
They just continue to think that their thinking is the only way to think and that they're right. It might be incredibly bright.
So that's one thing. And I think in the recovery program, you have to listen to others. Somebody said to me in the beginning, your best thinking got you a seat in here. So listen to somebody else.
That was a huge insight for me.
You know, so. And then like God, if you don't believe in God, God can be, you know, good, orderly direction or group of drunks.
Like, I mean, listen to somebody else. And that's why they have the mentorship program and recovery. They call it sponsorship.
You have, you know, you're supposed to listen to others, not always focus on yourself.
So I think lead, I really see leaders who develop.
They're very good at looking at themselves critically, listening to others, taking in the feedback, and it never stops. I think leaders too get. Sometimes they get very sure of who they are and what they think and everything else. But I think that's, that's like a constant thing.
The other thing that I see in comparison to leadership and the recovery program is a high degree of emotional intelligence.
So for leaders to evolve, I've often heard leaders say how I say things affects how people hear it. And if I want them to be engaged and follow me, I have to think about that.
A lot of leaders will get frustrated by people they think are slow witted or are different than them. But they often, the more mature leaders say, you know what? I've realized that people are just different. I'm learning how to deal with different people than me. So someone might be more feelings based than logic based.
And maybe I need to just tweak my direct feedback. I don't need to sugarcoat it, but maybe I could just think about how I say it to them. So when they receive it, they learn from it versus get offended by it or resentful. And the same thing in the recovery program. You know, the recovery program really teaches you, you know, how to treat others because you have to include everyone in the room. Even if they're different than you, you're not. You're not supposed to judge people in their recovery work based on the background, their politics.
The common purpose is this recovery journey. And that's what the focus is on.
[00:30:01] Speaker A: The principles above. Personalities, right?
[00:30:03] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: Your daily refocus. Walk me through that. Your refocus every day. What does that look like?
[00:30:10] Speaker B: Yeah, where focus goes, energy flows. And I got really inspired about focus. One of my favorite books is a book by David Rock called your brain at work.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: Yeah, you recommended that to me to read back then. Love that book.
[00:30:27] Speaker B: We use that book in a lot of leadership programs and we have it as like a mandatory part of the program to read it.
And also I've recommended it. So many people in my life, I've given the book to people.
It changed my life. I mean, I could be even better at it. I'm not saying I'm any master at it in any way, shape or form, but it basically explains how the physiology of the brain works and certain things to keep in mind when it comes to managing your mind and your focus.
So, for example, one of the things the book talks about is you should reset your focus every day because things happen all day long.
And tomorrow the focus might be different than it was 24 hours ago. So it talks about in the morning writing a to do list.
It doesn't matter if you do it digitally, if you do it on paper. But talks about, you know, you know, dumping the thoughts around your head because it takes a lot of energy to hold those thoughts versus writing it down and then structuring it, like in a prioritized way and also limiting it. You know, don't make it too long. Steve Jobs said focus and simplicity is our mantra at Apple. It's really hard to keep your thinking clean, but once you do, you can move mountains. He said, every year at Apple, we got a hundred projects to consider. We focus on three large projects and I mean, as we all know, Apple became the largest market cap company of the world at one point, which means the highest value in the stock market. And I think a lot of that came from, if you look at a lot of Steve Jobs videos, he talks about like focus. And if you read books about Apple as a culture, they had this like disciplined way of asking people to focus on things versus do a lot of different things. What about you? What do you think?
[00:32:30] Speaker A: Well, I don't know. I think that's where, if I were to look at myself, that's where I need the most help. Because I tend to want to do everything. I might, I might need to call you up again, Grant. I need a, I need, I need a boss to say, Diana, only focus on these three things.
I like that.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: I'm a lifetime student of it because I too, you know, have my challenges taken on too many things.
But what I like is sort of that 8020 rule. Like if you decide what to focus on, you know, you could ultimately get the Pareto principle, the most important things done and yet the less important things don't really matter as much, you know, so just constant thought, you know, just deciding what's most important. Um, I think it's super helpful.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: Does it give you freedom or is it exhausting?
[00:33:18] Speaker B: A little bit of both. Like it's exhausting to con in some ways. Like I've been doing it for so long. Like my. I have a digital post it note on my desktop which I've been using for like 15 years.
It's my focus post it note and I love it. It's on my notes feature, so it floats in my laptop and my phone and I use that thing like a.
It's almost like, you know, it's like a mobile phone. I mean I use it all day, every day and I work off of it, I update it. It's like my main tool. Like it's is with every workflow it's there, it's floating, I'm constantly jumping on it. I mean updating it, moving things around on it. Like it's like the main thing in my sort of cockpit. I have a couple things I do. Like I have a little section called signal to noise ratio which is like another theory about getting like the three to five most important things down in your day.
But then I also some. And then I have like focus for the quarter. What are my key objectives and results for this quarter? So I like have that as a reminder and then I have a longer list Where I can keep dumping things that I don't get done and everything and I can add other notes or whatever, but I'm. Every day I'm like going off of that list.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: Do you organize your notes?
[00:34:50] Speaker B: I mean I have an organization system on the, on the app and the note itself. I've got sections that I've created over time.
So I've got like, I've got signal to noise ratio, short list of key to do's, then I have like tomorrow to do.
I'm not the best at keeping this going and then like next week like later and then review and clean up.
So I have this. It gets out of whack sometimes. So sometimes I need to go back and like clean the whole thing up.
But I mean I'm loosely putting things in these categories.
[00:35:35] Speaker A: Are you a GTD person? Like getting things Done by David Allen?
[00:35:39] Speaker B: I read the book. David Allen has a quote I love.
So David Allen says a human can do anything, but they can't do everything. I think the main thing I got from GTD was create your own system in a way. I mean they're very, they prescribe a system there and I thought it was like over engineered in some ways. But I like coaching people. I never tell people use my system but I, I always coach people based on how, how you work, how you don't like to work, what works well for you, you know, what would you like to develop, you know, what would you like to experiment with. Often say that for developing, you know, your system and kind of based on.
And I got that thinking from GTD and I have presentations where I've included GTD in it. I show them like the model and everything.
But ultimately I just like the idea of like having a system and it could be as simple as writing on pen with pen and paper. Your to do list. But it's having, having a process. So once you have a process you can, you can approve it but with no process it's, it's hard to identify, you know, what your bottlenecks are and stuff like that.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: What happens when you can't control an outcome?
[00:37:05] Speaker B: It's about developing mindset tools to deal with that. I have a lot of mindset tools. I often coach people on like developing their mindset to deal with situations that are difficult or maybe that they can't control.
So to give you an example, I have one. I have a mantra.
Improvise, adapt, overcome, persist, march forward.
It's something I developed and it's like I go to that sometimes when something happens that I don't control.
From the recovery program, we have an amazing phrase.
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: How does it relate to that mindset tool? I'm just. Can you repeat that mindset tool again? I forgot it already.
[00:37:59] Speaker B: I coach people to develop, like, a kit of mindset tools, like, go to phrases that can reframe things that are challenging or don't control.
And it's different phrases for different scenarios. And I have, like. And I'd say I have a toolkit, like, a whole bunch of mindset phrases that you can draw on when things get tough. The phrase that I said to you before was improvise, adapt, overcome, persist, and march forward. It's like a phrase I use in entrepreneurship all the time, because things go wrong or differently all the time, you know, and it's. It's all about, like, improvising, adapting, overcoming, persisting.
Another one is persist through crap, criticism, rejection, assholes, and pressure.
Persist through crud.
You know, Another one is, you know, fear. You know, fear can be forget everything and run, or face everything and recover. Arise. You know, life begins, like, when I'm really uncomfortable. Sometimes before speaking, public speaking, I will say to myself, you know, remember, life begins where the comfort zone ends. Like, often when you do public speaking, you're growing in some way.
And I just remember that it's like, it's uncomfortable sometimes, but, like, then you grow from it.
[00:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah, you used to say that to me a lot back then.
[00:39:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I have a bunch of these that I use, you know, Another one is like, let me see, scarf.
And scarf is when I'm in fight flight freeze mode.
And if you give a label to it, you can tame the emotions. Like, you can take down the fight flight freeze response. So SCARF stands for I hope I get all of these.
It's an acronym.
So if somebody threatens your status, that's the S in scarf.
If somebody threatens your certainty, that's the C in scarf.
If somebody threatens your autonomy, that's the A in scarf.
Somebody threatens your relatedness. Like, you come in a room and someone says something sharp, you don't feel close to them.
Or if somebody comes in the room late and says, you're always late, but I never am.
It could threaten your sense of fairness.
So, like, when people threaten me, I'll sometimes say in my head, scarf.
And it's just like, it puts it in a box for me.
[00:41:03] Speaker A: Oh, nice. That's a cool tool. Thank you grant, I'm curious about your company that you've started.
[00:41:09] Speaker B: Throughout the last 15 years, I've been leading large executive coaching programs, both for corporations, companies, and also as head coach of the Stockholm School of Economics program, some of their programs there. I'm head coach in executive education, which is education like MBA education or for companies or master's programs. So basically I developed a tool for myself with my business partner, who's a software developer, to have our own tool for solving a couple of my biggest pain points, which was managing administration.
So we developed a tool that automated a lot of processes. When you, when it's the biggest killer for scaling coaching is administration.
I mean, once you start having 10 or more coaching clients or, you know, two or more coaches, there's so many things you need to manage. Like you need to manage billing, you need to manage reports, you need to manage booking systems, you know, surveys. I mean, there's so many things, impact analytics, all these things.
So, so we developed, basically in 2025, we released an enterprise version of our own tool on the market which solves the two main problems, which is administration and impact analytics.
Because coaching, it's very hard to prove the return on investment of coaching.
So we have lots of tools within our coaching platform, Fleet, to help organizations generate some data analytics in order to, you know, prove the effectiveness of the coaching. I mean, not breaking confidentiality, not looking at any private data or information, but more, for example, if the participants fill in surveys that they're aware will be used to evaluate, you know, the outcome of the program and they're willing participants to do that. So we have like AI sentiment analysis which will look at those reports and, you know, you could generate a report for the people who invest in coaching. And fleet means quality, efficiency and flow. That's a Swedish word for that. And what we have is a white label platform. So other organizations can license it, use it with their own branding, and they can also use it with their own coaches.
So for example, universities, executive education organizations that do a lot of coaching for companies or for their master's programs, they want to have their own platform, their own brand on it, their own coaches.
Same thing with growing coaching companies or large coaching companies. So that's what I've been doing with Fleet. My team, we've grown, we've expanded. We recently signed a really exciting client. Oxford University is using it.
[00:44:36] Speaker A: Congratulations.
[00:44:38] Speaker B: Thank you. For their executive education activities. I've been to England several times and it's one of our latest projects. We're ready and willing to help coaching Companies that want to scale and have a platform like that to do it.
[00:44:52] Speaker A: What's the pricing like? Is it for with companies that have a certain minimum of turnover or income?
[00:44:58] Speaker B: We have kind of a staggered pricing. So we have small coaching companies that want to grow and we have an entry level pricing. I mean people can get it anywhere from like €150amonth. And then of course we have enterprise clients that want all the features and functionality and we have a, like a base price. So it can be anywhere from, you know, two to €3,000amonth would be typical for a large enterprise client.
And then depending on their volume of use. So the number of seats, you know, number of people using it as coaches or administrators or people being coached, the volume could decrease the pricing a bit, the actual price per seat over time. So. But anywhere from €150 to like €3,000amonth.
[00:46:02] Speaker A: Okay, yeah. So yeah. So it's a bigger company than a solopreneur or something like that.
[00:46:07] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.
[00:46:09] Speaker A: I'm curious, how do you see coaching developing, you know, internationally, but also in Europe versus America? Do you see any kind of trends?
[00:46:19] Speaker B: Last year I attended a conference on AI and coaching and there's a lot of talk about that right now. I mean the revolution three or four years ago was digital coaching platforms which make coaching available globally at scale and coaches could be coaching globally. So that was a huge change. I mean you could be in Arizona and coaching somebody in Germany quite easily.
That was a huge change.
The numbers of people being coached, the numbers of companies investing in coaching and the numbers of people actually getting an education in coaching is increasing significantly.
There's some different numbers out there, but compound annual growth of coaching is around 14 to 17% depending on what number you look at.
So it's being accepted.
Not only that, it's being employed at an ever higher frequency and volume and I think the digital platforms contribute to that.
So it's being accepted as a valuable tool to develop leaders.
I remember 20 years ago there was a lot of people questioning what coaching is and what value it brings. So I think coaching is more understood.
And then finally with the AI, yeah, there's this big question, how can it be used? And when I went to the big conference this year, the outcome was that we're maybe 10 years away from pure AI coaching, like a top level leader. For now, AI agents can be really useful in assisting the coach and the person being coached by following like their homework assignments or certain inputs that are being collected in order to make it a better experience. But more as an enhancement than an actual replacement of the human. So, yeah, and I think you can use the AI as well to like, look at what's being done and provide some analysis of it in order to bring it back to the coaches to look at how they're doing it and can they do it any better.
[00:48:47] Speaker A: What about the confidentiality aspect of AI? I know there's some controversy about that.
[00:48:52] Speaker B: Nothing that's between the coach and the coaching client should be available anywhere else but to the coach and the client unless it's agreed. It's very important that digital platforms have a high level of security and certification for that. So, for example, we have something called the ISO 27, 2700 certification, which means that everybody's trained in data privacy, security, confidentiality throughout the whole company.
Meant that, you know, this data is never breached or used for sentiment analysis or anything else. It should only be data that's like very clear that it's going to be used for analysis to the person being coached and that's it. So I think.
And then the other thing is that people should be using their own, like AI. If they're going to use AI for anything, it shouldn't be used for training by anybody. So people should be investing in a license to use AI that's not taking what you're giving them and using it for training other AI models, basically.
So, for example, we use a service that we pay a lot more for it, but they're not using any of our information for training for other AI models, basically.
[00:50:20] Speaker A: So like ChatGPT and Claude and all of those do that.
[00:50:25] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.
We use a special European service that doesn't allow our information to be used for training of any other AI models. It's only for us.
[00:50:37] Speaker A: That's very cool. Yeah. Because I know that Europe has very strict information laws compared to the US with the GDPR requirements.
[00:50:45] Speaker B: Yeah, it's much stricter too. Like what data you can ask for when people register and how long you can keep the data after they've registered or used the service and what you can do with the data that you collect.
So, yeah, we actually, you know, are more, much more limited than the US in what we actually collect.
So we try and collect as little data as possible, whereas in the US they can collect a lot more. We have these large GDPR sort of contracts that everyone who uses the platform has to sign.
They probably don't go through every item line by line, but if they want to, they can and it's there and it explains who's the controller of the information. What is it legally requiring to do? What does it require you to do? To be, you know, a user of it.
So yeah, it is arduous to comply, but important.
[00:51:51] Speaker A: What do you think is the one thing you'd love to see entrepreneurs do that they're not doing?
[00:51:58] Speaker B: I meet a lot of people that have an idea but don't go all in on it. I've met so many people that say I wish to do something entrepreneurial, but they don't make the commitment necessary to drive it forward. And there's nothing wrong with you someone not doing an entrepreneurial journey. Nothing at all. But if it's something somebody really wants to do, I think half measures availed us. Nothing is a very good phrase from the recovery program.
You know, it's very hard to lift your company off the ground if you're not all in. It doesn't mean you need to work 247 your whole life, but it just means you need to make a valiant all in effort, whatever that means to you.
[00:52:46] Speaker A: What about people who just don't like sales?
[00:52:50] Speaker B: Well, I think it's really important in entrepreneurship to find the right partners to work with. When I first started, I was by myself. Somebody really recommended, I guess a partner who's strong in operations, technology and finance.
And that's what I did. And then we needed another type of person to join the team. Where we grew to another level and stage.
We needed someone who really understood commercialization, marketing and translating business needs into the product development. So like my partner, Inca White is my original partner. I've worked with him for 10 years and he didn't know anything about coaching, but he got a coaching degree. He's much younger than me. He's the young generation.
And to do a technology company we had, we had in our mind to do a technology company later. So when he came on board, we had a vision to get there, you know, but we needed, we needed something to balance each other. So I have like the industry knowledge, the market knowledge. He's got the technology, the finance, operations, he's our cto. And then we got Maximus to join us when we commercialized our product. He's really been a visionary for how do you translate customer needs into product development?
What kind of sales activity is important, what kind of a negotiation, terms, everything. It's really important you find partners to work with.
[00:54:22] Speaker A: I remember you telling me that develop your board of directors. Remember that?
[00:54:25] Speaker B: Yes, I do.
We have a great board of advisors that help us.
We looked for people who had great personalities but also competencies in different areas we needed. And I always say my favorite value is collaboration.
And I have a phrase, collaboration is key. That's how you grow.
And every time our company moved forward significantly, it was through some sort of critical collaboration. Now, Oxford University, they're critical collaboration.
They're an incredible organization, incredible people, a storied history, passionate about coaching, incredibly competent.
They have a vision for how they want to develop and grow and really make coaching something that they can offer many people.
And it's a great, great partner to work with.
[00:55:28] Speaker A: Now you've accomplished all of this. You know, you've got the roll fleets. What still scares you?
[00:55:33] Speaker B: Well, I'm scared of failing. I'm scared of not reaching my aspirations, my goals. I'm scared of what I don't know.
You know, the market does change. Is there any threats out there that. That I haven't. That we haven't thought of? You put your heart and soul into something, you're scared of it not materializing.
You don't want to just spin your wheels for 10 years, you know, So, I mean, I still have these fears. I think they. What?
You know, it's not always healthy, but it is healthy, too, because it motivates you.
You know, I'm also motivated by good things. It's been such a journey to build this. I started by myself in my own living room, in my apartment.
And it's been one step after another. First it was in a friend's office with no door. I was by myself. Then I started working with someone, then someone else. Then I got a business partner. And then more people in the team and more money invested. And then these years where you work on weekends and at night, all the things you went through. We've dealt with every challenge that's ever been thrown at people. Health, economy, personal stuff. During COVID our revenue got cut in half. Wrong directions for a while, all those things. You're afraid that all your efforts might not materialize the way you think, equate to the time you spent on it.
[00:57:06] Speaker A: Who coaches you now?
[00:57:07] Speaker B: Well, I'm surrounded by some great coaches. So I have some great coaches that we like, informally coach each other.
I have a great board of advisors that coaches me.
We got five advisors.
They all coach me, they coach us.
We've got an incredible team of advisors. They're all skilled coaching people. Every single one of the people on the team has a coaching capability, although that's not their background. Two of them have coaching, or three of them have coaching degrees, but they do other things a Lot of other things.
Then I have. I mean, my dad actually coaches me. He's got a background in business.
And then I have some people in the recovery program that coach me.
So this is kind of my coaching web.
[00:58:08] Speaker A: Because coaches need to be coached, right?
[00:58:10] Speaker B: Totally, yeah, yeah, completely. And I love it. Like, a couple of the coaches I work with are constantly. I've got two coaches who I love to work with. Incredible. Michelle Barnett Berg and Stina Panquist. We were working in a trio for many years. I know a lot of other great coaches too, I worked with. But the two of them are, in my mind, legendary coaches and leadership developers. And they are constantly learning, constantly developing new knowledge, new tools. And they'll bring the tools and the knowledge to me when they're coaching me informally. And other people. Some of the people I coach, you know, often in the coaching room, I'll be coaching people and they'll say, have you heard about this framework, this book, this video, this process, this mindset? So I pick up a lot for the people I coach too.
[00:59:08] Speaker A: So what's your morning routine like?
[00:59:10] Speaker B: My ideal routine is waking up at 5:45. I like to do the trifecta. I don't always get to do it, but the trifecta for me is like a one hour walk.
I shifted from running to walking like two years ago and then training at the gym and then a sauna. I do that three or four times a week when everything is like, yeah, ideal state. I can even do it like six times a week. But it doesn't always get like that.
But I love to start my day with that. And then usually when I get into the office, the first thing I do if I'm not like jumping straight into a meeting is I'll do my focus list.
So, like, reset my, you know, key things to do for the day. My morning routine is I'm pretty disciplined about it and it's like a key to my happiness. That's what I've been doing for years.
It's been really, really, really amazing when I don't get to do that. I don't have as much flow state I can. I could be all right if I miss it for a day or two or whatever. But, like, I need to do that every week.
[01:00:35] Speaker A: Well, thank you so much, Grant. Is there anything else that I've forgotten to ask you that you wanted to tell my audience?
[01:00:41] Speaker B: Well, I just want to say to your audience that I was so happy when I got contacted to be on your podcast because you made a really special impression on me. And once again, like, Diana, like, I mean, she took me on when I was a new coach and she was passionate about what she was doing. Like, passionate about her different ways of developing yourself. I know I'm talking to you, but I just want to tell your audience this.
And, you know, I've coached, I don't know, a thousand plus people.
You know, it's hard to remember everyone by every detail. You are unforgettable.
Like, I. And I mean that. You know, I've thought about you, I've carried you with me. It's just amazing. Look at you now. You know, you're doing this podcast.
You continue onto your journey of, like, developing, and I just love that.
And you've inspired me.
I remember, like, writing down things you said in the coaching session, taking it back, looking up things, reading things, applying some things. So for me, this is like an amazing full circle moment, and I'm just honored to be a guest. And I'm sorry I talk so much, but I guess part of the purpose is I talk. I would have loved to just hear you talk.
So thank you so much for this opportunity.
[01:02:16] Speaker A: Well, you're welcome. All during our sessions, I did all the talking, so it's nice to turn the tables now.
[01:02:22] Speaker B: I've always wanted to do more podcasts.
It's not easy to do. We did like five episodes ourselves, but then we never released them. We tried to edit them and everything. And then I. We just parked it. But I would love to get back.
[01:02:37] Speaker A: To it, so maybe this will get you started.
[01:02:40] Speaker B: I love that.
[01:02:42] Speaker A: Well, Grant, thank you so much.
If this episode landed for you, share it with someone who might need to hear it. And if you haven't already, subscribe so you don't miss what's coming. But here's the real thing. I want you to know if you're carrying something you can't talk about, if you have every resource except someone who actually understands what wealth costs. I work one on one with people like you navigating exactly that. You can reach me@diana oehrli.com. thanks for listening.
