Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hi, everyone.
Welcome back to the show. Today I'm talking with Chris Burris, a scientist, engineer and entrepreneur who's been manufacturing a Nobel prize winning molecule called ESS60 since 1991.
We're diving into his fascinating journey from comedy improv to longevity science and discussing some pretty wild research about a molecule that extended lab rats lives by 90%.
Before we jump in, I want to be upfront with you. Chris sent me some of his product samples, but I haven't tried them yet. This conversation is purely about getting to know him and understanding his science background. I'm not recommending any products today, just having an interest. Interesting chat about molecules, longevity research, and how someone goes from performing comedy to running a lab. As always, this is for entertainment and education only. If you're thinking about trying any supplements we discuss, please talk to your doctor first.
And hey, this is one of my first times uploading videos, so bear with me as I figure this out. I'm still learning where to look and how to be comfortable on camera, but the conversation is what matters. And Chris brought some fascinating insights today.
Now let's dive in with Chris Burris.
So, yeah, how are you doing?
[00:01:30] Speaker B: I'm doing very good. It's a, it's a great start to a Monday. I think it's going to be a great week. I have lots going on.
I like it. You, you know, I have an aura ring. I don't know if you play around with aura rings or anything.
And today I felt tired and it was kind of nice to go. Yeah, whoop. It was kind of nice to go to my OURA ring and have it tell me that I slept well.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: What's good sleep for you?
[00:01:59] Speaker B: It's an 80.
And probably my struggle is deep sleep, at least according to the OURA ring. I rarely get more than 30 minutes of deep sleep, so. Yeah.
And I haven't played around too much with my schedule and my late night snack.
I always describe it as the barrier between me and an entire cheesecake is a couple small squares of chocolate. Right. Like small ones which might have enough caffeine in them to disrupt my deep sleep. I'm not sure.
But anyway, I haven't gotten rid of that yet.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: What percentage cocoa is your chocolate?
[00:02:43] Speaker B: It's like 90. It's at least 92.
Sometimes I'll do a 98, just depending on what I pick up at the store.
But I, I do kind of cheat. So I do a dark chocolate with some flavoring, right. So it'll have like, I don't know, blood orange flavoring. So I'm sure that's a little bit sweeter. So it's one square of that and then one square of the dark chocolate. And I've actually added Quest makes a peanut butter cup which is like, I don't even remember, but it's a lot of protein and not much sugar.
And so that's my indulgence.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: Nice. And that actually prevents, like, it holds you back from going after a cheesecake.
[00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah, that's how I describe it.
In reality, I'm probably not going to eat a whole cheesecake, but it's kind of that acceptable level of, I don't know, naughtiness.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: It's good to be naughty.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: I think so.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: Well, yeah, it kind of fits with your, your, one of your life lessons that you wrote us about that make, make mistakes faster.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think, I think that's really important when you want to, when you want to achieve something. Right. And I'm having conversations with my kids like, you, you need to feel stupid a lot because that means like you, you're not going to try something new and feel confident, like that's. That. That doesn't make any sense. And if you are, then it's not really that new.
And so you really do need to feel dumb and fail a lot. And the more you do that, the more I think your last.
Actually I was just looking at the title and subject of your last podcast. I was literally, I took my son for probably an hour and a half walk and was lecturing him about.
So we, we actually came up with this really, really cool conclusion right from this question.
What is, what is, what would you say is your best day ever?
Right. They're 15. I have 15 year old twins. What's your best day ever?
And he actually has a really hard time remembering stuff. He certainly is adhd, probably on the spectrum to some small degree.
And really like, what did you do today? Is a challenging question for him and it always has been. And we'll sit at the dinner table and like, what's your favorite part of the day? Like, who did you help today? And he just struggles and has always struggled. So. But we started kind of narrowing in on things like, and I'm providing guidance of like what I see as potentially your best days. And they're like a day you conquered the velocicoaster, which is a massive roller coaster. I think it's in, in Orlando.
And the day that there's a swing on, on another amusement park that swings over. So it's, it's on a cliff like Basically, it's a kid's ride, but it's on a cliff. And when you put a kid's ride on a cliff, it's no longer a kid's ride, right? It's a terrifying. Like, he literally got off. I was like, hey. Went to my wife, hey, Marisa, look at his hands. And they were shaking. And so I kind of pointed these things out and. And then I was like, how would you. Like, how would you describe your perfect day? And I know his answer. It's being on his computer.
And I said, isn't it interesting that in no way as you're trying to think about the best day you ever had, would it ever include a day you spent on your computer.
And yet your best day, as you're planning it, is a day you spend on your computer.
You really need to let this sink in. Now he's 15.
It's not going to sneak in, sink in. I'm going to be reminding him this forever, probably.
But what an interesting contrast, right? Because as you plan a great day, would that day be a day later that you would count as your best day ever?
Right. And for him, the distance between the two is night and day. And so anyway, those are the kinds of things you've got to do, hard things to really find happiness.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: Well, it's interesting, I think, that having had a son who likes to game, I asked him once, I'm like, what do you get from that? He's like, I'm actually really good at it and I feel really successful.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: And I would encourage that to some degree. You got to be careful. My son is not playing games to get better. He's playing games to distract. And he'll even admit, like, if you were wanting to be a gamer, right, and then now you're playing the one game and you're doing the reps and you're doing the boring reps necessary to become a great gamer at a particular game. If I'm hearing that language from you, I'm all about it. But that's not what's going on. Right. At least not in Alan's case. What's going on is I'm distracting myself from the hard stuff. The boring stuff. Right. Is one of the things that I read once is that people with adhd, their boredom is actually wired to pain.
Like, the parts of their brain are almost the same, if not the same. So when they're bored, they're in pain. It's not just like, okay, you and I grew up being bored, and maybe we were ADHD and we Unwired it or whatever. Right? Like, like, because there weren't options for us back then, but we got used to being bored. Like, one of my rules with the kids is the first hour in the car. There is no cell phone. There is no tablet. There is nothing. You have to stare out the window like I did, and make a game. And my game was like a little motorcycle riding. All the heels that are in this. In, you know, in the terrain next to us. Like, you have to figure out how to entertain yourself that way.
And I, you know, I think that helps. He usually sleeps during that hour.
But, but, but I think we may have learned to, to have the pain of boredom be less painful. And, you know, it's hard to teach that boredom is good for you these days. Like, it's just hard.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: Like, I read recently that they're, they're. They've done studies with humans that with boredom, they put them in a room by themselves and with. The only thing they, the only choice they have to do is to elect. To elect to zap themselves, to shock themselves. And they actually choose. They would prefer to shock themselves and to just sit around doing nothing.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: How bad is the shock?
[00:09:19] Speaker A: I guess they survive the shock, but.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: I guess they survive the shock 100%. My son would do that. A hundred percent.
Like, just, just 100%. Because the shock is the, like, boredom is more pain than the shock. I, I is probably what it is. Interesting.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And there was also a French philosopher who said all of man's problems stem from their inability to stay in a room alone with their thoughts.
Les Pascal was his name.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: I think I agree with that.
It was interesting. I picked up Alan. This has become a conversation about only my son at this point, from summer camp. And he came up to me, like, right when we were picking him up, and he's like, remember when you told me I'm not comfortable being alone with my thoughts?
And I had kind of forgotten that I'd mentioned that to him. He was like, yeah, I, I am. I'm actually uncomfortable being alone with my thoughts.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Wow. You guys have great conversations.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: I don't think I have a choice.
I think I'm. I think I'm also very lucky. Right. I have a friend of mine, human behavior expert, the best therapist I could imagine. And at different points in my life, I would have an hour conversation with him every day. Right. Like, just every day we're talking about, why do people think this way and what's going on and how do you, you know, he shares with me his processes. I'VE actually gone through. He's got a process called the subconscious rapid transformation technique, which is amazing. And it's as amazing as it sounds. And.
And so I understand a lot of stuff from those conversations with him.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: That's so cool. Well, you sound like a great dad.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: And so how do you go from comedy to science?
[00:11:05] Speaker B: Well, maybe the first question is, how do I even do comedy? So. Right. So I think when you read that I did. I was a professional comedy improv artist. You're probably like, oh, this is a guy who is a theater kid. He grew up, you know, on stage.
None of that's true. Like, absolutely zero of that is true. I like to play around with accents, and I've always enjoyed that with friends, but never anything on stage.
I think the best way to describe it is one time my mom came to my show and I asked her afterwards, hey, what'd you think of the show? And she said, well, it was just like us sitting around at the dinner table, because at the dinner table, we would just take the double entendres, take different meaning of the words, flip it around, spin it around. It gets ridiculous.
That is what comedy improv is, right? You get on stage and it's, you know, it's got some structure, but a lot of it is just what pop out. Pop what, you know, pop out of your mouth, what comes into your head based on what the other person has said.
So, yeah, that. That's kind of interesting how I ended up there.
And I did. I did. I was a professional comedy improv. I didn't get paid. Well, I'll tell you that. There was no living to be had there.
Yeah, it would have been a homeless living, but. But I did get paid, and. And I did that for five years, and I really. I actually really miss it. The theater was right up the street.
I'm very hopeful that I wasn't the cause of the theater shutting down.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Where was this?
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Where? In Houston?
[00:12:42] Speaker A: In Houston?
[00:12:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: There's good comedy in Houston, isn't there? I think.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: Yeah, there is. We've had, you know, lots of comedy stores comed.
I don't. I know of one comedian, a Latino guy who's absolutely hilarious, who's a Houstonian. I'm sure there's more. I think Mo, he got a series on Netflix, is from Houston, so I can't remember his last name. But, yeah, there's some good comedy here. I mean, people forget. And this is interesting, people forget that Houston is the fourth largest city in the country, and actually just about to pass Chicago. So we'll be the third largest city in the country.
And, and I'm going to say this, and you're going to be. If you're like me, you're going to go, no, it's probably in New York. We are the most diverse city in the country.
And like, no, it's got to be New York, right? No, we have. I, I think that it's like 130 languages are spoken in Houston. Like, like we are the end. Not only that, I always have this picture of like in New York, you've got Little Dominica, little Italy, et cetera. And we have a Chinatown. We don't have really anything else.
And the Chinese people don't necessarily live there. That's just their places of business. So there's great restaurants and all that fun stuff.
We're actually a real melting pot of all these cultures.
And, and so it's kind of counterintuitive to realize that the melting pot that America is supposed to be is in a deep south city. And, and it is. And it's here in Houston. Now. We're not a great tourists. I always do a tourist spot. Like I always joke with people, hey, welcome to Houston. Let's go check out San Antonio or Austin.
Cause those are more tourist. But if there's something you want to find, be it comedy, be it arts, be it whatever, concerts, it's here and you can find it. You just have to put forth a little bit more effort, I think.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: Wow, you make me want to move there.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a move here now. Be wary.
It's hot.
It's. It's really, really hot in the summer.
But you can actually do stuff outdoors early in the morning, late at night. I usually train outside in the mornings and you get used to it, but it's hot. Like my, my brother in law visited recently and we went for a jog. And normally when I visit him, he's in New Jersey.
Would jog together every day that I'm there.
And we only jogged. He only jogged one day when we were here. He's like, yeah, it's a little. It's too hot.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Because now you wrote that you now exercise. That's one of the biggest.
You exercise every day now instead of two or three times a week?
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: What has that done for you?
[00:15:26] Speaker B: So I think it's done a lot and to be fair, it's like concretely five days a week and then usually doing something. So like yesterday I went for like an hour and a half walk with my son so it's, I don't know, my whole life. And really this is, people hear this all the time. You should be exercising every day. Like you hear it and then when you start doing it, you're like, oh wow. It becomes a habit and it feels amazing and you need to do it. And if it's, if it's just walking.
The thing that I preach now is I love the familiar with Dave Ramsey, the kind of financial guy who so, so Dave Ramsey's big financial guy helps people get out of debt, right?
And he says if you have three credit cards, you don't pay off the credit card with the highest interest rate. You pay off the credit card with the lowest debt on it. Because then you'll have the psychological benefit of getting past that financially. It's stupid. Like financially you should pay off the one with the highest debt and like as quickly as possible.
But the fact that you get to take that credit card, even if it were a lower interest rate and wipe it off and then now start applying that payment to the other credit cards like it, it's using smart, using understanding human nature and then applying like good principles to, to manage that human nature. So I kind of in the middle of the pandemic. I've always, you know, I played semi professional soccer. My standard workout was a three mile jog. But three miles takes a certain amount of time, takes a certain amount of effort. You got to clean up afterwards. And I never ever thought that that was holding me back until the middle of pandemic. My wife was going for two mile jogs on a regular basis every day.
And I was like, well, I can, I can jog two miles every day, like that's not a big deal. And so then I started jogging two miles every day. And there is more benefit and I'll get to kind of the point in what I preach, but there's more benefit in doing stuff every day when you versus doing a lot of stuff in one day. So what I teach now, what I think is really important is listen, if thinking about a 30 minute walk, like if that's where you're at and you're like, I should be walking 30 minutes a day. But the thought of 30 minutes a day slows you down ever.
Then make it 20, make it 10, make it 5, whatever the number is that you just don't hesitate and you go do now you'll do a little bit more.
Be, be fair to yourself. Because if you say I'm only going to do five and every time you do 30, eventually you know, you're doing 30, like, you got to deal with where you're at.
And the reality is if you're running, if you're walking five minutes a day, seven days a week, that's 35 minutes. Five minutes a day is better than 35 minutes one day. Like, there's just no doubt about it. So think about that. What is the minimum that you have? And I also like this concept. I saw a meme from this guy, he's like, listen, my ideal routine takes like two hours. I got like, you know, 30 minutes of meditation, there's 45 minutes of strength training, another 20 minutes of, you know, cardiovascular workout, and then I got to do some breath work and get a cold plan. Like that's my ideal routine. But every day I'm going to do 50 push ups, 50 squats, 50 sit ups. And that's a check mark. Right. So you get to say, yes, I accomplished this thing that day.
Have that minimum that you is unacceptable to go below and then have that target.
And I think those are really good keys, certainly that have helped me to making sure that you get, get the thing done.
[00:19:05] Speaker A: Yeah. People want to feel successful.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
And if it's only five minutes walking, that's a success. And if you like, I love the phrase success breeds success.
So figure out how to make yourself successful and do that thing and then you'll become more successful.
[00:19:23] Speaker A: Wow. So how does that fit into the whole longevity science?
That's your thing?
[00:19:30] Speaker B: That's my thing now, apparently. Yeah.
Well, what an interesting journey to get here, to be in a longevity space. I, you know, certainly eight years ago, if you had told me I'm going to be a longevity health expert, I'm going to have written a book called Live Longer and Better. I'm going to have finished a longevity summit where I interviewed 55 experts in longevity, including Dave Asprey, Ben Greensfield, Dr. Stephen Gundry.
I would have just said no, like, you know, what's the other path that you're thinking? Because I don't know how I'm going to get from where I was to where I am. But, and it's, you know, it's really just stepping into the space that, that was made available and, and, and so we can talk about that.
I am the oldest and longest manufacturer of this model. I'm holding up a model of a molecule. If you're listening, just imagine a soccer ball where the lines on the soccer ball represent the bonds between the carbon atoms. You have a spherical molecule of 60 carbon atoms.
The molecule was discovered in 1985, the scientists who discovered it won the Nobel Prize. In 1996, they won the Nobel Prize because the molecule is amazing. It performs as well or better than the current best material in almost every application. So it makes better inks, better batteries, better tires, better photocells. And you know, that's often where people get nervous. It's like, isn't this a health health supplement? Isn't this health? Aren't we having health conversations? You said ink batteries, tires and photocells. And then the story gets a little worse. So on the exterior of this soccer ball shaped molecule are 20 hexane hexane rings now or benzene rings and benzene rings. Well, benzene is really important in our society, but it's known to be toxic and known to be carcinogenic. And so because there's 20 of these shapes on the exterior of this ESS60 cage, they thought the cage would be, the molecule would be toxic. So they put it in a toxicity study instead of being toxic. The test subjects that they gave it to, in this case it was wistar rats lived 90% longer than the control group. So the single longest longevity experimental result on mammals in history and it is peer reviewed, published research, is because of this ESS 60 molecule dissolved in olive oil.
And our lab provided, I'm very proud to share our lab provided the material. Our lab is mentioned in the original study.
Um, and the most consistent testimonial about the product, kind of as humans are taking it, is people take it in the morning, they report mental focus and energy during the day, and then better sleep that night. And that kind of, all of that, all of that has thrown me into this longevity space. So I've, I've transitioned from being the chief scientist at a carbon nanomaterial manufacturing business, which we still do today, and we still sell to research institutions around the world.
But now I'm the chief scientist of a health supplement company. And so that's a very different role that I've stepped into. And it's been fascinating and interesting and you know, I'm excited to wake up every day and get to be the geeky guy that you see in front of me sharing, you know, cool information with people like you and you know, continuing to do research on this molecule and where it sits in the health space.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: So that's interesting. That part, a part of that molecule was considered toxic, but then when it was actually applied on mice, it did the opposite. So how can you explain that?
[00:23:04] Speaker B: Yeah, so really it's the, the benzene ring is different than. And again, I'm holding up the model. But imagine the benzene ring is six carbons, right? In that shape. In that pentagonal shape. I think that's right. I'm close.
And. But it has hydrogens on the exterior of it. Right. So it's not sitting in a cage like this ESS60 cage, where the exterior molecules on the cage are attached to other carbon molecules. Right. So it's fundamentally different, but it is the same shape. And there's 20 of them on the molecule. Right. So it's kind of surprising and also kind of not surprising. Right. What's interesting, I mean, benzene is ubiquitous in our modern society. If you're kind of not aware of it, just kind of glance around where you're at. Everything that's plastic would be gone without that benzene ring. Without hexane, the benzene ring.
And. And again, it's known to be toxic on its own and known to be carcinogenic, but it's in these plastics. It's also in a lot of medications, including aspirin. It's in a lot of detergents. So once you bond it with other things, then. Then there's no problems. Right. Like, this is. This is a safe molecule, but when it's on its own is when it's a problem.
So in reality, inside this ess60 cage, they're not on their own. Right. Like, okay, there's 20 of them, and they're, you know, individually, there's 20 of them, but they're not floating around on their own like a benzene ring. And so it's. That's kind of not surprising in that context. What's interesting is all the wet chemistry that we know how to do with a benzene ring, almost all of it applies to this molecule. So now. Now you have a 3D version of benzene ring. And again, benzene is necessary for modern society. Like, without the benzene ring, we just don't have modern society. And now you've got a 3D version of a benzene ring that turns out not to be toxic, which is another benefit. In fact, it extended the life of test subjects by 90%.
Yeah.
I think it's extremely reasonable that the guys who discovered this won the Nobel Prize for the discovery of this molecule.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: When was that, 1996 or 2000?
[00:25:15] Speaker B: Yeah, the Nobel Prize was awarded in 96. They discovered it in 85.
My company started manufacturing it and selling it to research institutions around the world in 1991.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: Oh, so even before.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's. I am. I Am not a very braggadocious person. It is not unreasonable to suggest that because scientists actually had macroscopic quantities of this material that we sold them, they were able to understand the value of the material. And ultimately that led to the Nobel Prize.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: So I've read that you have a. You're a patent holder. What's your patent?
[00:25:56] Speaker B: Yeah, well, this is, of course, it's in downhole explosives.
Yeah. So we're in Houston, and it's an oil and gas town. And so I did consulting for Shell Exploration and Production and ended up on an amazing downhole explosives project. Right. So explosives are used. Just imagine you've. You've put a piece of steel in the earth, right? And you've cemented it in. In place the way you get to the oil, right? So now you're like, well, oil can't flow through cement or steel. So how do you get to the oil? You actually stick an explosive charge down it and, you know, fire that charge in through the steel, through the concrete, into the formation, and now it can flow up through those holes.
So I ended up working on a project called Casing Conveyed Perforating, which simplified that process. And I actually got. I was, I was.
There was a guy I worked with who had been in the industry at that time 18 years and had never pressed explosive charges. So these are charges that you actually take explosive material and press them into a particular shape. And so I got the opportunity to press explosive charges.
And this was right after 911. I remember traveling with a model of these explosives. It was a model, never been exposed to explosives. It was like, I probably shouldn't have traveled with that. But I distinctly remember when I got on the other side, I was like, oh, that was in my bag. And nothing dangerous about it, you know, but it was a model of an explosives framework.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: God, are you constantly, like, doing experiments? I mean, you seem like the type of scientist who's constantly got. You have like a laboratory in your house where you're testing.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: I do not have a laboratory in my house, but I have a laboratory right here. So we are, we are doing research regularly. I'm, I'm trying to pull myself out of that. Like, where can I add the most value to the company?
And it is like, by having conversations like this, by kind of sitting more as an overseer, we just invested $150,000 in a research study that is kind of a classic study.
Imagine if you wanted to. If we wanted to get our product into like, Whole Foods or some large company, Walmart, then they would. There are certain tests that they would look for not necessary to be on the market, et cetera, but for those kind of bigger projects.
And so we're continuing invest in those types of research.
We actually published in June of last year and in May of this year with the. This is kind of cool. With the original researchers. So that. That 2012, it's called the BATI study out of the University of Paris, where the rats live 90% longer.
Bhatti was the grad student who did all the work. The lead researcher was Fatim Moussa. And we just. Those two papers that I mentioned that we published last year and this year were published with Dr. Fathi Musa. So we're like, tied into the core of this technology. Technology coming into the health and wellness space.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: Yeah. But in the US it's very difficult to market supplements as solving problems, right?
[00:29:06] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. There's a structure function claim that you cannot make. Yep.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, for example, I think you got. Or not you. But some people got in trouble around Covid times. Like, they tried to prove that this was helping with COVID Um, and was.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: It helping with COVID Ah, that's a great question. So I'll. The way I like to answer that question, if you were to tell me I think it's helping with COVID how might it be helping? Right. And I. I can answer that question. Right. I can't say that it is helping. I can say how it might be helping if it was helping.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: So the biggest problem with COVID was actually not the virus itself and the damage the virus did, but our immune system's response to the virus. Right. And so there's this thing called the cytokine storm. I love the example, like, your first level of.
Of fighting a virus is like snipers, Right. Where they're coming in and they shoot real slow and they're extremely accurate and like. But when they get overwhelmed, then you just bring in machine guns, like they're firing everywhere, and they're doing damage to all sorts of. All sorts of collateral damages happening. And that's what the real problem was with COVID is this overactive immune system.
And we believe so. So if we were helping to address the overactive immune system, I believe that's how the benefits might be happening. This would also be kind of, in terms of long Covid.
We have to be really careful when we start talking about inflammation. Right. Because that's what we're really kind of insinuating in this case. And the reason we have to be careful is the FDA equates conversations of inflammation with the conversation with, with the diseases of inflammation, which are also the diseases of aging. So that's arthritis, Alzheimer's, cardiovascular disease, cancer, all of these kind of inflammating type diseases. And so if I come on your podcast and I say, hey, we help address chronic inflammation or inflammation. In this particular case, what the FDA hears is me claiming that we cure cancer, cardiovascular disease, arthritis. Obviously we're not doing that. There is so much more research that would need to be, would need to happen, extremely expensive research that would need to happen to be able to make those claims. And so that's where I can kind of leave that, that particular topic.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Oh, okay. So.
[00:31:30] Speaker B: If, if I were to, if it were, if you convinced me that it was having a positive impact on Covid, then I would suggest that there might be some value because.
Well, what we'll do is antioxidant. Absolutely antioxidant at the mitochondrial level. Absolutely.
Well, not absolutely theoretically. That's the current theory. It's our boss theory, the buffering oxidative stress system. And we do know the molecule gets into the mitochondria. Let me, let me talk about that because that's kind of fun.
So that's, that's where we land now. At the, at the core level, a lot of supplement companies are excreting. Extremely excited and proud to share that they operate at the cellular level.
And they should be because there's some that don't. There's actually some that just stay in your intestines. You know, there's some supplements that are just topical or whatever, don't get intracellular at all.
In our case, we're actually subcellular. So at the level of the mitochondria. And this is our boss theory, the buffering oxidative stress system. So we know from peer reviewed published research that this ESS60 molecule gets into the mitochondria.
We also know from way back in the 90s when it was discovered that it can hold up to six negatively charged particles on the exterior of this cage. And what that means is. Well, that's kind of brief refresher on the mitochondria. The mitochondria is the powerhouse of every cell. There's between 50 and 5,000 mitochondria in every cell in your body except for your blood cells which have 0 and your brain and neurons which have 2 million.
It's amazing how much energy our nervous system uses relative to our other systems.
Like every power source, there is a negative byproduct. You think about your car Going down the road, there's exhaust, you think about a power plant, there's smoke coming out of the smokestack. In the case of mitochondria, it's reactive oxygen species. I picture these, if they're left to their own devices, as little like bumper cars rusting everything that they bump into, causing oxidative stress, causing oxidative damage, ultimately causing inflammation and internal to the mitochondria, you actually have two antioxidants, glutathione and melatonin, to manage those reactive oxygen species so they don't do any damage. But what happens when you stress a mitochondria? And first go, how do you stress mitochondria? I kind of joke. You live in modern society. You do a workout you like, you take an airplane ride, you've got exposure to emf, you're in smog, you're in the stress of traffic, stress of conversations. Like in modern society, you have stress mitochondria.
That's when those reactive oxygen species would normally be left to run around and cause that oxidative stress and oxidative damage. And that's where we think the ESS60 molecule comes into play. We believe it can hold. Well, we know it can hold up to six negatively charged particles, so we believe it holds on to those reactive oxygen species so they can't run around like little bumper cars. And then when that mitochondria replenishes the glutathione, replenishes the melatonin, then it can manage those reactive oxygen species appropriately. I have kind of a fun analogy for this, and maybe you'll agree all biological analogies should start with Mardi Gras. I mean, a lot of biology happens at Mardi Gras, but so it's the end of Mardi Gras. And on Bourbon street, you have these drunk reactive oxygen species running around causing oxidative stress, smashing windows, cars, whatever. And the New Orleans Police Department, the glutathione and melatonin, come on to Bourbon street, handcuff themselves to those reactive oxygen species, and get them off of Bourbon Street. But what do they do when they get overwhelmed? They take those reactive oxygen species and they stick them in a paddy wagon, right? They attach them to the exterior of the 60 molecule so they can't run around and do damage. And then when the New Orleans Police Department replenishes the glutathione, replenishes the melatonin, then they can handcuff themselves to those reactive oxygen species and, and get them off of Bourbon Street. And that's why we say that the ESS60 molecule is the boss buffering oxidative stress system.
[00:35:33] Speaker A: Wow, that's a really cool analogy. Is it naturally occurring?
[00:35:37] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. So if you take the soot of a candle flame, right, and the best way that you would collect that soot is put a cold steel plate over a candle, you'll get that deep, dark soot that will have parts per million or parts per billion of the ESS 60 molecule.
So it is. We have all been exposed to this molecule. The issue is it's just at such low quantities to not be of value.
[00:36:00] Speaker A: So how did you come across it?
First time?
[00:36:03] Speaker B: Yeah. So my business partner was working at the University of Houston at the Texas center for Superconductivity. So that's an organization housed under the University of Houston umbrella. And he was separating this molecule. Right. So we're in Houston. The molecule was discovered in Houston, and so we had kind of early access because we were so close.
And the molecule, when you produce it, is produced with some, we'll call them, sister molecules.
So you've got one with 60 carbon atoms, one with 70 carbon atoms, one was 76 carbon atoms. And on up, they're called higher fullerenes. And so he was separating this material to isolate the one with 60 carbon atoms.
One day, his professor, actually, Professor Paul Chu, who's real famous in the superconductivity world, and actually the building they were working in on the University of Houston campus, we called Chu's Castle, because that's why the building, like, because of his fame, is why they built the Texas center for superconductivity there.
And Dr. Chu came in one day and said, hey, you guys are young kids. This molecule is selling for $6,000 a gram. You should go start a business. And my business partner Robert is from an entrepreneurial background, and I kind of joke. He did a back of a napkin calculation, which had one line on it, $6,000 a gram, and that was it. And so then he started to build the equipment necessary to manufacture it, which is not easy.
I was at the University of Houston studying mechanical engineering at the time. And so they brought me in to help with designing the equipment, putting together the drawings, building out the equipment, and that's how we ended up kind of being the. The. We're the oldest and longest manufacturing distributor of this molecule on the planet.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: Wow. So you're really an engineer.
[00:37:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Comedian, scientist, Chemist. Chemist, Chemist, podcaster.
[00:37:58] Speaker A: Have you had a conversation with Andrew Huberman yet?
[00:38:00] Speaker B: I have not. And in fact, it's funny. My mom went to dinner with my mom last night. She's like, oh, I just bumped across this guy, Andrew Huberman. I jotted down his information. It's like, I know who he is. Like, I would, I would love to have a conversation with him.
Certainly would feel intimidated, but would love to have a conversation. I'll tell you, I was on Dr. Gundry's podcast a long time ago, and that's nerve wracking. I don't know if you know his credentials. He's a former practicing cardiothoracic pediatric heart surgeon, so he did heart surgeries on children.
He was the president of.
What is it?
I used to say that he was a president of one of the heart societies, but I think he was actually the president of the, the on campus organization for, for, you know, doing heart surgeries. Like, what do I have in common with this guy? And we just had a great time. Like, he's great. It turns out I do know my stuff. And of course he knows his stuff. Like, I've been lucky to interview him a couple of times and.
But yeah, those, those instances are pretty nerve wracking, to be sure.
[00:39:08] Speaker A: Yeah. But you're getting, I mean, you've got your own podcast, right? I mean.
[00:39:11] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:12] Speaker A: How's it going?
[00:39:14] Speaker B: I'm, I'm excited. So we're currently releasing two episodes per week.
I did get to interview Dave Asprey for the second time. Dr. Stephen Gundry for the second time.
And I, you know, I just get to interview experts. I do about two hours of research. Clearly you've done research. Like, you know what, you'd like it probably, if you're like me. I love those two hours.
Sometimes it's. You got to squeeze those two hours in on a weekend, which I try not to do, but that happens sometimes. And then, and then, yeah, you get to interview and, you know, ask experts the questions you want to ask. It's kind of cool.
[00:39:51] Speaker A: Yeah. So why did you focus on longevity?
[00:39:55] Speaker B: Well, I think that's.
It's interesting.
Well, the short answer is because our molecule is responsible for the single longest longevity experimental result on mammals in history.
I think that's. That may be the entire thing. So my role is to try and figure out where does that fit in the longevity space. And, you know, that's why I wrote the book Live Longer and Better. Right. Your journey to living longer and better has never been more achievable than today.
It starts off as the story of the discovery of the molecule, which is interesting. Right. Like, it almost didn't get discovered For a number of reasons.
And then that original study where the rats live 90% longer. And then kind of my learnings as I'm trying to figure out where this molecule fits in this longevity space that I didn't really have any awareness of.
And so as I'm digging more and more into it, you know, I love what Dr. David Sinclair haven't. I would love to interview him too.
I love what Dr. David Sinclair says about the information theory of aging. And that you know, it is possible that we could, I think Peter Diamantes, I forget who originally came up with a quote the concept of the longevity escape velocity where every day we live the medical community extends life by slightly more than one day which means at some point there'll be somebody who is the last person to die of natural causes.
And.
And I think that's actually true.
And so I'm excited about you know, one that's train at least five days a week to make sure that you cross the finish line on the right side of the line. You don't want to be that last person who dies of natural causes. You want to be the person who is the first person to not die of natural causes.
[00:41:43] Speaker A: So what would be a natural cause?
[00:41:46] Speaker B: Cardiovascular disease, cancer, like any sort of bacterial, viral, old, aging in general. And I, you know, I'm sure there may be people who are like that. This just sounds ludicrous. But the reality is. So we could take some cell off of you Diana, and we could make a baby Diana.
So every cell in your body has the information to be a baby. Right to. So how we just got to figure out what levers we need to pull to roll that back to the spot that we want to roll it back to. Whether that's. I hear rumor that it's 29 for women. Like that's the ideal age.
Well, I mean even as you're that that involves kind of a linear path. Maybe you'd want some. Something younger or older but. But yeah, like where you could choose that age that you're going to be at and, and you just pull the right levers and stop when you're where you want to be at. I don't think anyone who's got some maturity really wants to go all the way back to the hormonally crazy era.
[00:42:50] Speaker A: But men would right? You guys 18, right?
[00:42:53] Speaker B: No, I don't think so. No, I don't think so.
No. You know, and with a 15 year old son, like I'm like how do you convince them not to do dumb stuff? You know wow. They're just kind of wired to do dumb stuff.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: Like, prefrontal cortex doesn't really come online yet. Right.
[00:43:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's for a reason. Right. They do dumb stuff, and that keeps the civilization, you know, it keeps the population growing.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: Well, as. But if it's part of, you know, your philosophy is make those dumb things faster.
[00:43:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And safer.
[00:43:30] Speaker A: It's like. Yeah. As long as it doesn't kill you. Right.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:34] Speaker A: Or make lasting damage. Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:36] Speaker B: Do, do, do Dumpster. Okay. Get a ticket. I don't care about a ticket. Don't die.
[00:43:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
Wow. So what's your stance on, like, substances with. With your kids?
[00:43:47] Speaker B: Ah, interesting.
I. I probably. I've really always been kind of socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and so I don't share with my kids my past, but because I think that. I think that inherently gives them permission and, you know, whether they do whatever I've done, that's fine, but they don't need my permission. They need to make a decision that they're going to do it. So in general, I just don't share.
I will share, like, oh, you know, there's probably safe ways to tackle whatever it is you might be. And. And I'm actually extremely good at having extremely uncomfortable conversations with my children. Like, I've always done it to the point that they're blushing and they don't want to have the conversation anymore. And I was like, you, we need to have these conversations, because at some point you need to be having these conversations. And this is, you know, kind of regarding sex, but it certainly can apply to drugs, too. I think if you're. If you can make the environment where being uncomfortable is comfortable, then, you know, hey, dad, you know, a bunch of people were smoking dope, and I was thinking about doing it. It was like, well, I've heard rumor, blah, blah, blah, or so. So I can provide some guidance. But, yeah, I think having those uncomfortable conversations all the time, literally, I've just always had uncomfortable conversations with them where they're. Where they're blushing and I'm kind of enjoying it.
[00:45:14] Speaker A: Yeah. But I mean, it sounds like you've got great open communication with your son. He's already telling you that he's telling you the truth.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: Well, he. No, my son is not there yet. My daughter is. And again, they're twins. Right. So she's, like, having conversations.
I'm pushing the conversations. So they haven't really come back to me and asked any questions, but I'm pretty confident they would be comfortable asking Questions because I've already made them uncomfortable about pretty much every topic.
[00:45:45] Speaker A: So I wanted to ask you to shift gears.
You wrote all supplement companies are just out to make money. Well, that's your. The contrarian view. What's your contrarian view on that?
[00:45:56] Speaker B: Well, I look at it this way. I think most supplement companies exist for one of two reasons, right? And the first one is somebody wakes up one day, they decide they're going to be wealthy and they decide they're going to do it with supplements. And I have no problem with people being wealthy. I hope they do it ethically, but that's just absolutely not how I ended up here. The other is in the supplement space. Somebody has their own health challenge or maybe the health challenge of a loved one. And then they figure out how to solve it through supplementation and maybe exercise and good sleep or whatever it is. And now they're out to save the world. And I hope it doesn't surprise you. I am not against people saving the world. It's just not how I ended up here. I've been manufacturing this crazy wacky ESS 60 molecule since 1991. They thought it would be toxic. They put it in a toxicity study instead of being toxic. The test subjects live 90% longer than the control group. And now I'm just trying to be a good shepherd of that technology. And, you know, I love my life. I get to be super sciency and super geeky and drive research forward, share that with people. I do love conversations. And then I get to reap the benefit of people coming back to us and sharing the benefits that they're experiencing. Like what a lucky position I'm in right now.
[00:47:13] Speaker A: Do you use the product yourself?
[00:47:15] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah, I'll. So the way this year is, I've cut back, way back on drinking, right. I think it's the smart thing to do. A lot of people are doing it.
I'm not necessarily riding the wave, but it certainly helps when you see people like Joe Rogan go, yeah, I don't think I'm going to drink anymore.
And my wife hasn't drank at all. But previous to that, I enjoyed imbibing. And if I were going to go out and have a couple of drinks, then I would take extra product. But my typical routine, we have a. We have three oils. We've got olive oil, avocado oil, and MCT oil. I do a kind of a bulletproof coffee in the morning, right? That typically has ghee, high quality coffee, ghee and some mct. I get rid of the ghee I don't really want the calories and I don't like the taste, honestly. So I put our MCT. So MCT with the ESS 60 molecule in my coffee. While that's blending, and that's about a teaspoon and a half, I'll take a teaspoon and a half of our olive oil. Now, if I were to go out and have some drinks, I would typically take an extra teaspoon. A serving is typically a teaspoon, which is 5 mils. I would take an extra one. And then if I'm, if I'm like back to back podcasts or whatever, I'll end up doing, you know, I'll have another shot of it at some point.
[00:48:35] Speaker A: Hmm. So does. Does your Oura Ring measure hrv?
[00:48:40] Speaker B: It does measure hrv.
[00:48:42] Speaker A: So do you notice a difference on the days that you take the substance.
[00:48:45] Speaker B: And not so I haven't been paying close attention to hrv. I've actually done a couple interviews on hrv. I haven't dug into it. The thing that I can share as it relates to our product is I was having a conversation with a guy who was a consultant for Oura Ring, and it dawned on me in the middle of our conversation. I was like, hey, you probably have interesting data as it relates to alcohol. And he's like, yeah, typically alcohol holds your heart rate up higher and it takes much longer to. For your heart rate to come down. Typically it'll come down pretty fast. It's not that dramatic, but it will come down pretty fast and stay pretty low for the duration of the. Of your sleep.
And he sent me like one after two. He had had two glasses of wine. And the next one that I, the next image that I took the. Didn't have this long, slow trail when I was drinking and taking the product. So there's an impact I can share.
Dr. Lane Young came up to our booth at a 4M longevity fest. So this is in Vegas. And I had had a conversation with him at Dave Asri's biohacking conference earlier that year. And he came up and he said this. And after he said it, I said, I need to take a video of this. So I actually have a video of him saying, chris, I don't care if you're male, female, pre surgery, post surgery, cardiovascular disease, or otherwise healthy, your product will reduce elevated HSCRP numbers to normal ranges into normal ranges in four to eight weeks. It will also improve HRV and deep sleep by 20 to 60%.
And so we're actually in the process of doing an hscrp. By the way, HSCRP stands for high sensitivity C reactive protein. It's an inflammatory marker that they use most typically to look at cardiovascular disease. Your risk for cardiovascular disease.
But I did have a conversation. So in this case, Dr. Young, he had a client who his protocols were not moving him off of nine. So he had an elevated HCRP of nine. I had a conversation with an oncologist who said nine means to us that you have cancer. Until we prove otherwise, it's in a very inflamed state.
And so we brought that nine down to 0.9 in the four to six, four to eight weeks that Dr. Young mentioned and then had that improvement on sleep. And, and it matches our go ahead.
[00:51:05] Speaker A: With, with your product entirely. Or were there other behavioral.
[00:51:10] Speaker B: He had already tried other product protocols, his normal protocols. And he actually went on in that video to say, yeah, we just believe it's something that we should keep on our employees. Break room.
[00:51:21] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:51:24] Speaker A: You look really quite young to have a 15 year old. How old are you?
[00:51:27] Speaker B: I'm 56.
[00:51:29] Speaker A: Wow, you're older than me and, and you look younger.
[00:51:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I, well, we, we also have some face products and by the way, I'm happy to send you stuff. I love to send products to people who are, who are interested.
Yeah, we ended up so, so it should be very clear I didn't necessarily want to be in the supplement industry. Right. Like this is not my, I didn't realize this was my calling. This is not, I didn't like at some age go like, I need to discover something that's going to extend life by 90 and then go in the lab and do was all kind of very serendipitous. When one of our business partners came to us and said we need to come up with a face serum, I was like, yeah, yay, face serum. That sounds amazing.
So we did and we actually started getting good testimonials. And then my director of research came to me and said, hey, I found this peptide that has 30 years of skin and hair improvements.
You should look at the research. So I dug into the research. It's pretty amazing. And it is 30 years of peer reviewed published research on skin and hair improvements. And so it, that peptide is an or, it's a, it's a water based peptide.
Most peptides are, and we call it Uth 29. Uth 29. And then it comes with an Ess 60 activator because the peptide is in a water soluble lotion. And the ESS 60 activator is oil soluble. So the molecule is only oil soluble. We decided to kind of not have an emulsifier that should shoves these two things together because you can always shove water soluble and oil soluble things together with emulsifiers. I don't like how emulsifiers sound. And if you go Google them, there are no benefits. Like, there's, it's all negative. And so we ended up making a two part. I literally. So at that same longevity fest where Dr. Young came up and, and I recorded that video, this group, the Boulder Longevity Institute, I had been on a, a zoom call with the whole, with our whole team and they came up to the booth and I described like this is kind of a little bit of hyperbole. But the, the two of the people in the group and there were two women were like, hey, that live longer. Excuse me. Get that out of the way.
Like live better, better sleep. All that. Get that out of the way. I'm here for this, I'm here for this two part solution because they love it. And so the response is kind of crazy. It's.
It's really.
[00:54:00] Speaker A: You're not putting emulsifiers because I, I use this app called Yucca. Do you know about that app?
[00:54:05] Speaker B: I do not know about Yucca.
[00:54:06] Speaker A: It's an app where that, that you can scan the barcode on any product and it tells you what ingredients are toxic and what ingredients are safe and it gives an overall score of the product, you know, poor or great or whatever.
And based on the ingredients.
[00:54:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:25] Speaker A: I wonder how Yucca would score your molecule.
[00:54:30] Speaker B: Yeah, well, the molecule.
So there's good research on skin and this is out of Japan for looking at. And these are kind of limited studies, but looking at wrinkle size and depth and then looking at like skin tone with benefits, like with positive benefits, of course.
So the literature on that would be pretty limited, but who knows? It'd be interesting. I'll have to check it out.
[00:54:58] Speaker A: That's so cool. Well, I wanted to ask you about your health summit. I mean, we've talked about your podcast. What is it called again?
[00:55:05] Speaker B: The podcast is called Live beyond the Norms.
[00:55:08] Speaker A: Okay. And it's on YouTube and Apple.
[00:55:11] Speaker B: And it's on YouTube. It's on Apple. It's everywhere you can find it.
And yeah, we're releasing two episodes per week right now, which is a lot of work.
[00:55:22] Speaker A: Wow. And you've got the book. Is one book, right? Yeah.
[00:55:25] Speaker B: Yes. Actually another one's on its way. We. I just got kind of the final edit of the, of the new One.
[00:55:31] Speaker A: What's the new one going to be called?
[00:55:33] Speaker B: I think it's the Longevity Molecule.
[00:55:35] Speaker A: Ooh. Okay.
And your summit? The Health Summit.
[00:55:40] Speaker B: So. So the Health Summit. It's actually about where we're about to launch. This is interesting. This podcast will probably come out after, but you can always find it on, um, it's@longevity secrets.myvitalc.com and again, it's. I interviewed 55 experts in longevity, including Dave Asprey, Ben Greenfield, Stephen Gundry, people like Tom o'. Brien. Autoimmune fix. He wrote the autoimmune fix. He was amazing.
Natalie Nidam, who is in the biohacking longevity space. She's amazing. She actually helped me with. She probably got me like eight interviews for that summit. She's amazing.
And yeah, so we kind of do deep dives and you have access to each of these videos. There's eight videos per day for seven days or for 99 bucks, you can have access to all of them all at once and you can just watch them at your leisure.
[00:56:35] Speaker A: Is there one coming up?
[00:56:37] Speaker B: Yeah. So it launches. Well, Today is the 8th. It launches on the 10th. So this podcast won't air in time for that.
But still, that link will work. You'll be able to find, you know, you'll be able to purchase access to those.
[00:56:50] Speaker A: Is it a yearly event?
[00:56:53] Speaker B: It's not a.
This is a relaunch. So we launched it in March of last year.
It was well received. So we're, we decided to launch it again this year. And yeah, it's going. It's part of. When we first connected, I was like, yeah, I'm a little busy. That's. That's part of it.
[00:57:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's a, it's good. Is it going to be like a six month thing every six months? Because it looks like you're six months in.
[00:57:15] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's, it's seven days for the event and then we might do it another six months or something. We might relaunch it where we kind of do a conservative marketing effort with some budget behind it.
We just got to see that, you know, as. As time goes, like, we.
I don't know if we'll do a big launch again, but it will always be available there.
[00:57:37] Speaker A: Very cool. Well, I appreciate your time, Chris. You know, Are you a doctor? No.
[00:57:42] Speaker B: You know, I am not. No, no, no, no, no.
[00:57:44] Speaker A: Because you get.
[00:57:45] Speaker B: I just get.
Because of my product.
Well, no, the lab coat is very. And, and anytime anybody asks me that, and I've been asked actually a surprisingly low amount of times it like, the purpose is we are a lab and we do research on this molecule. And most supplement companies don't do research. Even fewer publish that research. We're doing both and very proud of that fact. And so, yeah, I run back in the lab quite regularly.
[00:58:15] Speaker A: Very cool. Well, it was lovely to meet you and wow. I feel much more educated after one hour with you. I can't imagine spending all my time with you. I'd be brilliant.
Thank you very much.
[00:58:28] Speaker B: Thank you. So if anybody's interested in trying it, I'll make a URL for your audience.
[00:58:33] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:58:33] Speaker B: Do you have kind of a preferred URL like myvitalc.com forward/?
[00:58:40] Speaker A: Sure.
What would you call it? Presses of Pressures of privilege.
[00:58:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:45] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:58:48] Speaker B: Pressures of privilege. Yeah, we will make that happen. And then there'll also be a 15 code.
A code for 15 off when they go there.
And there's a couple things. Just a little bit of advice. When you go there, people will ask between the different oils. Olive oil we always recommend for two reasons.
First, we're a science based organization and all the research is. Almost all the research is on olive oil and the ESS 60 molecule. The second is it's the highest concentration. We actually get about 0.8 milligrams per milliliter in olive oil, 0.6 in avocado oil, and 0.3 in MCT. So we always recommend the olive oil. I have a charity piece of my book that I'm extremely proud of. So you can find the book live longer and better on Amazon or on the podcast. Again, go to myvitalc.com pressures of privilege. Grab that coupon code, go to the URL, go into the menu structure, find the book. The book is also 1995, both on Amazon and on our website. But for 10 extra dollars, I will autograph the book for you. And 100% of that $10 fee goes to Operation Underground Railroad. So you may remember the movie the Sound of Freedom, which was an amazing movie about a horrible topic, which is child sex trafficking, which obviously should be off of our planet yesterday, that Operation Underground Railroad is who that movie was about. So 100% of that signature fee goes to Operation Underground Railroad.
[01:00:15] Speaker A: Oh, what a lovely. What a lovely cause. Thank you very much, Chris.
[01:00:20] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
[01:00:22] Speaker A: You're welcome and hope to see you again.
[01:00:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:00:26] Speaker A: Before we wrap up, I'd like to thank Oliver Kuiker for the jingle and Gwendolyn Christian for the backup support.
Also, a quick reminder, these interviews are not a substitute for professional medical legal or psychological advice.
Always consult with a qualified professional for any major decisions in your life.
And thanks for joining me in exploring the connections that make us human and learning insights and strategies to help us build, heal and nurture relationships, including and especially the the one with yourself. It's been an honor to share this time with you and to bring you conversations with some of the brightest minds who deserve more recognition. Remember, life's too short to take too seriously, so don't forget to hit that subscribe button. Get outside and let's continue this journey of life together.
See you next time.
[01:01:19] Speaker B: Sam.
